A deckbuilding experiment

[lordarcanis]

In the process of becoming a better deck designer, I have set challenges for myself along the way.  Whether that challenge is to build a deck around a reject rare (Quicksilver Fountain FTW!!), or make a deck that has fetch-able answers to everything, I find it a helpful way to visualize and organize during the deck building process.  As a part of this theory, I have always wanted to make a deck where at least half the cards in it are restricted.  When I first saw Grim Long, I knew I had found my starting point.

First, I will go over the deck as it is now, and then I’ll leave you with some discussion points.

Power Tools.dec:

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Glimmervoid
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
3 Grim Tutor
3 Duress
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Sol Ring
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Ruby
Mox Pearl
Mox Sapphire
Lion’s Eye Diamond
Lotus Petal
Timetwister
Necropotence
Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Yawgmoth’s Will
Wheel of Fortune
Mind’s Desire
Vampiric Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Imperial Seal
Regrowth
Frantic Search
Tinker
Memory Jar
Windfall
Tolarian Academy
Crop Rotation
Chrome Mox

So, that was how this started.  When playtesting this deck, I notice that the lack of defense is at least slightly offset by the sheer power of the cards.  Notice how some restricted bombs did not make it into this list.  Some noticeable omissions are:  Fact or Fiction (perhaps a little too expensive), Gush (no Islands), Grim Monolith (this card is better overall than most people give it credit for, but isn’t better than the cards currently in here), and Enlightened Tutor (it just doesn’t quite do enough to make up for the card disadvantage).

The point of this post is not to show you what I think the most efficient or optimal build of GL is, the point is to explore a deck that HALF (or more I guess) restricted.  I think that my numbers are as good as they can be given my building restriction, but I am really interested in what you guys think.

Some discussion points:

With the current decline of Stax (and, for that matter DSC as a win condition), is Hurkyl’s Recall/Rebuild absolutely necessary main deck?
3x Duress is the only disruption I have.  Given that I have changed so much else, is there something that would work better with this build and still offer some defense?
Am I using the best restricted cards I can?  I am disappointed in Chrome Mox (though that doesn’t surprise me), but it seems like I need the extra mana because my deck has a higher mana curve than most Long lists.
Finally, this build seems a little shy on land.  What should I cut, and what land should I add?

Thank you in advance for taking a look at my experiment, and all of your help!!

P.S.  Remember, this is a deck-building experiment, and not a question of which build of GL is optimal.

Thanks again!!!

[Draven]

Usually when you have an "experiment," you have a hypothesis, or, what you are trying to prove (or dis-prove). What is the hypothesis in your experiment. I am not sure what you are hoping to accomplish. What information do we garner from building a deck of 50%+ restricted cards?

[lordarcanis]

The way I see it there are at least three good reasons to experiment:

1.   It helps determine what the actual optimal build is.  For example, I might find that every time I play Frantic Search, I win. That would be a good indication that Frantic Search should be included in GL.  The same would apply for the other cards as well.  Also, on the reverse applies here double.  It could be that there aren’t enough lands to support Crop Rotation.  This will help determine what the threshold is for things like that.
2.   If I understand correctly, the theory behind the original Long.dec was that you have more broken cards than your opponent, therefore have a better chance of winning.  This of course is merely theoretical.  It obviously depends on what build you are using and which deck you are against, but in general, this is taking that philosophy to the extreme.
3.   It is brain exercise!!  You sound like a college student who asks his teacher why he has to study (not to imply that anyone can learn from me- I’m no teacher, I’m still learning).  You enrolled in the class, you might as well.  Well, here, you post to TMD and care about Vintage, shouldn’t you take a look at all potential builds of a deck?

In addition to those, you might just have some fun trying to build with certain restrictions.  I thought it would be pretty clear that building decks, and having a purpose in doing so are both good things, but maybe not…

[Aardshark]

It appears you have "updated standard" grim long with 28 restricted cards as follows:

Grim Long
A Vintage deck, by Stephen Menendian
4th place at a StarCityGames Power 9 Tournament tournament in Chicago, Illinois, United States on 2005-10-30
As reported at http://www.starcitygames.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Creatures
2 Elvish Spirit Guide (more) Cabal Ritual
1 Xantid Swarm Empty the Warrens

Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
2  Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Hurkyl's Recall (-1 card)
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress 3 Duress (-1 card)
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Mind's Desire
1 Regrowth
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk 1 Frantic Search
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel Of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Lands
4 City Of Brass
1 Forbidden Orchard Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Underground Sea Glimmervoid

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

New Restricted Cards:
1 Crob Rotation
1 Chrome Mox

Sideboard:
1 Chrome Mox (moved to main) ???
1 Mox Diamond
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Darksteel Colossus
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Abeyance
1 Chain Of Vapor
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Balance

If your goal is to find an optimal grim long with at least 30 restricted cards I do not believe you succeed by weakening the manabase and swapping time walk for frantic search.  You will not have enough land in play to make frantic search worthwhile, and time walk is very strong, especially with ETW.

I suppose Chrome Mox and Crop Rotation might well be the best previously unused restricted cards if you want to bring the count up to 30.  Crop rotation has been in previous incarnations of the deck, and chrome mox has at times had a sideboard slot (as in the list above). Cutting a Durress and Hurkle's Recall make as much sense as anything if you must do this. 

You realy should make room for a chain of vapor--it will be missed.

I too question the value of this exercise.

[Draven]

2.   If I understand correctly, the theory behind the original Long.dec was that you have more broken cards than your opponent, therefore have a better chance of winning.  This of course is merely theoretical.  It obviously depends on what build you are using and which deck you are against, but in general, this is taking that philosophy to the extreme.

This actually made the most sense to me... If you have a deck with all of the most broken cards (ie, restricted) will you do better then your opponant? That is actually the hypothesis I was looking for, and with that I tell you, let me know how it turns out. Now it seems interesting to me.

[meadbert]

I would like to echo Aardshark's point about Chain of Vapor.  Chain of Vapor is great at building storm when you lose your graveyard do you Tormod's Crypt.  Also it is nice for mini storm if you are about to play Empty the Warrens.  The only card in original Grim Long with dissynergy was Xantid Swarm, which you have dropped.  The fact that Empty the Warrens works so well with Chain makes Chain all the better. 

It can prudce mana if you have multiple moxes and lands to sacrifice.  You can tap and sacrifice Tolarian Academy before you play Yawgmoth's Wil.  Then you can replay Academy and use it again.  This is more common in Gifts, but it happens with Long as well.

Chain of Vapor is so good against so many decks.

It bounces DSC which can save you against Gifts or Slaver if they try to use that route to win.
It RFGs all of Dragon's permanents if you can hit a Worldgorger Dragon.

Versus Ichorid it is your only removal for Leyline and it easily bounces Chalice.  You can also use it to prevent a Cabal Therapy by bouncing an Ichorid during your opponent's upkeep.  Finally you can bounce a Dread Returned fattie.  Chain is very good versus Ichorid.

Versus Stax Chain is hit by Chalice@1 but it can bounce almost everything else.

Versus Fish Chain can bounce a Meddling Mage naming Yawgmoth's Will or Tendrils of Agony.  Null Rod is another common target.

[Methuselahn]

P.S.  Remember, this is a deck-building experiment, and not a question of which build of GL is optimal.

Thanks again!!!

I've thought about it.  I think it is very hard to make suggestions that will make your deck better when you impose such a drastic design restriction upon yourself.  Especially something that is not fun in a casual environment, which I have to assume it is for, since imposing such a restriction literally neuters ANY effectiveness at a tournament.