MDG in 2K7

[Zarathustra]

MDG can totally abuse storm.  I agree with you that, when you can make a sizable, yet still not lethal, storm count then EtW is better than Tendrils.  However, if you are unable to build a sufficient storm, or when doing so would be inefficient as you would be expending cards which could be better used for protection, then EtW will suck and so will Tendrils.  Tinker + Colossus is nice because you can launch it any time and do not have to worry about building sufficient storm.

EtW is good because you don't have to go 'all-in'.  Even if you have to EtW early, you can still manage to win with Tendrils a few turns later, which is why it's so good.

Tinker/Colossus is only really good in the first few turns.  Besides, it takes up two slots.  EtW is good in almost every situation and is rarely a dead draw.

Sure, Tinker/Colossus is easy to set up and play, but you spend two cards on something that is so easily dealt with.  And no, Tinker/Colossus is not good at any time.  It is only really good withing the first 1-3 turns.  Even turn 3 is pushing it.  Gifts is huge right now and it packs so many ways of dealing with the Iron Giant.  Merchant Scroll ---> H. Recall, Rebuild, or Chain.  Fish has Swords.  Stax, CS, and 7/10 have Welders.  When a deck doesn't have to deviate from it's normal course of action to deal with a win condition, chances are you're gonna lose.  Gifts going for a Rebuild against a Colossus deals with that clock AND allows them to win during their turn.  Welder is a normal course of action for Stax, CS and 7/10.  So, when you put all your eggs into Tinker/Colossus against a deck that has very little problem dealing with it, you're gonna lose.

-DShell

[zeus-online]

I don't think its that hard a decision wheter to drop a mox or not, you generally speaking don't drop them unless you need the mana anyways, and if you need to cast something, then you should just drop it EtW or not, ofcourse, if i have a turn two 6+ goblins vs. fish i might hold it even if i had something worth casting.

/Zeus

[hitman]

Implacable - I wasn't saying that Empty the Warrens is my primary game plan in the Drain mirror.  I was pointing out the reasons I believe Warrens is better than Tinker/Collosus.  I have two capable win conditions and game one I go with whatever my hand makes most possible. 
I, generally, don't hold mana.  With four Scrolls you can play Warrens when the option presents itself.  If your opponent drops a Null Rod or Chalice, you've cut yourself off from options to respond

[LSD/Cruise]

Heres the thing about Tinker/Colossus; it doesnt need to know what kind of hand you have to make it good. All it needs are specific needs such as a Mox, or whatever to actually take full advantage of. With mana leftovered from the turn you played Tinker (assuming this is later in the game) you should spend that mana on finding counters to disrupt your opponent or protect Colossus. Obviously you should never use EtW or DSC against a deck like Slaver, snce everytime you make attempts to go Beatdown with those win conditions, you tend to lose a majority of the time.

If you going to run EtW, I say you guys run a 2nd Rebuild. See it like this; it's possible to abuse that mana under Null Rod for a certain amount of time, and with the help of a 2nd Rebuild and EtW in general, it should give you a possible effect if used alongside with 4 Scrolls, and 3 Tutors.

[Odd mutation]

Hi,

I've been playing for some time now and ended up with a list very similar to Menendian's latest list. I just replaced Repeal with Echoing Truth and am still using Library of Alexandria.

1) What do you think about Echoing Truth replacing Repeal? It helps fighting opposing Empty the Warrens and still bounces important artifacts. Downsides are it doesn't get you a card and it costs 2 and chalice for 2 is common. Your thoughts?

2) Library of Alexandria: I just cannot seem to cut it with Gifts (with Library) and Control Slaver in my meta. It's just a liability with all the Stax and its Wastelands but then, it's replaced by an Underground Sea in Stephen's list. Is the extra black mana source really that needed with the main deck Dark Ritual? Your thoughts?

My meta: all forms of Stax, Ichorid, Controll Slaver, Gifts, Fish and some combo.

Greetings,

Robrecht.

[Implacable]

Hi,

I've been playing for some time now and ended up with a list very similar to Menendian's latest list. I just replaced Repeal with Echoing Truth and am still using Library of Alexandria.

1) What do you think about Echoing Truth replacing Repeal? It helps fighting opposing Empty the Warrens and still bounces important artifacts. Downsides are it doesn't get you a card and it costs 2 and chalice for 2 is common. Your thoughts?

2) Library of Alexandria: I just cannot seem to cut it with Gifts (with Library) and Control Slaver in my meta. It's just a liability with all the Stax and its Wastelands but then, it's replaced by an Underground Sea in Stephen's list. Is the extra black mana source really that needed with the main deck Dark Ritual? Your thoughts?

My meta: all forms of Stax, Ichorid, Controll Slaver, Gifts, Fish and some combo.

Greetings,

Robrecht.

1) I'm testing out Echoing Truth right now in the Chain slot, but I really am not liking it.  The extra one mana is frustrating a lot of the time.

2) The use of Library is meta-dependent; I'm actually surprised that Menendian doesn't run it when he plays in the North-East.  In my meta, with so much Stax and Fish around, I wouldn't even consider running it.  But if your metagame is Drain-based, then go ahead; nothing else dominates the Drain mirror like it does.

[LSD/Cruise]

So much can take that extra "Repeal" slot right now. Here are the options...

Timetwister
Another EtW, Rebuild, or Mis-D
Hurkyl's Recall
Echoing Truth
Mind's Desire
Fact or Fiction
Burning Wish
Gush
Frantic Search

Add another Land, which can easily be LoA, or another Island or Dual Land.

That's all I can think of as of now....

[Odd mutation]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

Implacable: I would never change the Chain of Vapor into the Echoing Truth! My question was to change the Repeal into Echoing Truth. Chain of Vapor is too important! With the bounce suite I'm running, I've got one at 1, at 2 and 3 mana. Of course Repeal can be any of those... Echoing Truth has the advantage of bouncing multiples: multiple chalices, Null Rods, ... and Empty the Warrens tokens.

LSD/Cruise: I don't completely agree with that list. The deck has just enough lands, it doesn't need any extra. The exact configuration can change but the number feels exactly right. I wouldn't put an extra Empty the Warrens in, definitely not instead of a bounce spell. In my modest opinion Mind's Desire has no place in MDGifts. Gush sets you back 2 lands and that's something you'll never want in a lot, if not all, matchups. So it looks like I could agree on: Timetwister, Hurkyl's Recall if your meta is infested with Stax, Fact or Fiction if you have a lot of control in your meta and maybe Frantic Search, that's an idea I haven't tested at all! Yet I believe bounce is the best here: Repeal or Echoing Truth.
That said, I certainly don't consider Repeal an 'extra slot'. The list is really tight, there's no place for 'extra slots'. Maybe I didn't exactly understand what you meant 'though...

Thanks for the replies. I'd like to hear more on the advantages of Repeal over Echoing Truth and vice versa.

Greetings,

Robrecht.

[LSD/Cruise]

IMO, do not think 3 Bounce cards are actually worth running. They tend to be dead sometimes, and it's hard to be proactive with them unless your trying to make a lethel storm count. I prefer to see other things in the list like th stuff I mentioned. Honestly, I can see Burning Wish in this slot. It can basically deal with everything Echoing Truth tries to deal with in a much higher price, but yet more flexible.

My wishboard would probably be

Empty the Warrens
Mind's Desire
Echoing Ruin
Pyroclasm
Massacre

[Kieranwolf]

Burning wish does seem possible now, in lists that have cut Tinker and Colossus. However, I think the wishboard might still be less than ideal. Gifts, when piloted by someone who's accustomed to it and keeps track of the metagame fairly well, should be able to win the first game in many of its rounds without having access to the sideboard via Wish.

The bounce spells and ETW just make for a very resilient combo. I should know, since I've been trying to make hate decks that foil the new builds of Gifts ever since I found out about ETW. Colossus used to be bad, but at least he was just one blocker. ETW makes an army's worth and just ruins Aggro's day. Sad face.

[o uncola o]

Burning wish does seem possible now, in lists that have cut Tinker and Colossus. However, I think the wishboard might still be less than ideal. Gifts, when piloted by someone who's accustomed to it and keeps track of the metagame fairly well, should be able to win the first game in many of its rounds without having access to the sideboard via Wish.

The bounce spells and ETW just make for a very resilient combo. I should know, since I've been trying to make hate decks that foil the new builds of Gifts ever since I found out about ETW. Colossus used to be bad, but at least he was just one blocker. ETW makes an army's worth and just ruins Aggro's day. Sad face.

Every tried to cycle a Slice and Dice?   
http://magiccards.info/on/en/232.html

Cut that... just thought how that might not be the best solution for aggro.

[King_minos]

I am running Hurkyl's recall and chain of vapor as my bounce spells and instead of repeal, burning wish. My metagame is mainly drain and fish, and it has been useful playtesting against both. In the drain mirror, I can go get ETW or even Desire if i need to. Also, if they manage to combo into ETW, pyroclasm is a great option to go get. In the fish matchup, Massacre and Pyroclasm are great wish targets. IMO, burning wish adds to what is great about Gifts, the fact that it can be so versatile.

[LSD/Cruise]

Mind's Desire was always my favorite card to Wish for in the Drain mirror. The fact this deck is nothing but bombs make Mind's Desire a strong canidate to run for the "Wish Board." It can even be boarded in and wreck havoc for your opponent.

[LSD/Cruise]

I've been tinkering with that slot for awhile.... I came up with mine, but it's more reasoning for it. That card for the 60th slot is Gorilla Shaman. Yes folks, it's Mox Monkey. Why Mox Monkey? Well, here's the simple reasons why...

Eats your own Moxes to set-up Will.
Puts you back in the mana war.
It can stop welds.
Turns a neutral position in the Drain mirror, into a dominant one.
Eats Chalices, and even Null Rods too (which is a huge plus for this deck).

[Liam-K]

I ran mox monkey myself for a long time and he was solid in the drain match.  With the spread of decks that he's just too slow to fight on the table right now I wouldn't.

But unless you're talking specifically about mana crypt or some mana fixing stunt, eating your own moxes to set up for will doesn't actually generate mana.  If you're resolving will mox monkey shennanigans should be win more anyway.

[LSD/Cruise]

I ran mox monkey myself for a long time and he was solid in the drain match.  With the spread of decks that he's just too slow to fight on the table right now I wouldn't.

Really to tell the truth, we usually make other decks play 'catch-up" with us anyway. I cant really consider this slow, but then again, my build is slightly more faster than most other peoples.

But unless you're talking specifically about mana crypt or some mana fixing stunt, eating your own moxes to set up for will doesn't actually generate mana.  If you're resolving will mox monkey shennanigans should be win more anyway.

Just generating Storm count should be good enough as long as you have enough mana to find Tendrils. It's just something Gorilla Shaman can do really, but it's not really something worth putting in the deck specifically for that...