Culling the Weak & Phyrexian Negator

[TheOldMan]

Culling the Weak

Instant
As an additional cost to play Culling the Weak, sacrifice a creature. Add {B}{B}{B} to your mana pool.

Phyrexian Negator:

Creature - Horror
Trample
Whenever Phyrexian Negator is dealt damage, sacrifice a permanent for each 1 damage dealt to it.

Game setting: My combat phase.

I attack with Negator.  He blocks with 2/2 Goblin, then bolts my negator.  In response I play culling the weak.  His turn for response.  I announce any more plays during combat phase and ask damage on the stack.  He agrees- damage on the stack.  I sacrifice my Negator, and have 4 mana (later in the turn I play Skeletal Scyring drawing 3 cards - Yawg's Will for the win).  He says I have to sacfrice 5 permanents from the 2 damage from the Goblin and 3 from bolt.  An argument ensues.  I say Culling the Weak resolves before the bolt, sacrificing negator removing it to graveyard, before the damage was dealt to it.  Oh yeah and the 3 damage goes through from negators trample ability.  He says damage was on the stack and the 5 damage still gets done to the negator.  And then states (or wonders) at least the 3 damage from the bolt goes to negator.

Question 1: Does 5 damage go to the negator?  Does the 3 damage from bolt go to the negator.
Question 2:  Am I right in game sequence?  When instants are played during combat, do they resolve after combat damage is on the stack, or before damage is on the stack.  In that case, the same thing would happen, no damage dealt to negator as long as a response to the bolt was CTW.

Posts merged, Oracle Text cleaned up. Instead of replying to your own post to correct it, edit the corrections into the original post (click the Modify button in the top right corner of the post).
-Godder

[Apollyon]

You sacrifice the Negator as part of the cost of playing Culling the Weak.

When it's time to resolve Lightning Bolt, the target (Negator) isn't there, so it's countered upon resolution.

You then stack combat damage. Since you attacked with Negator and it was removed from combat, no damage is assigned.

When both players do nothing after blockers are declared, combat damage assignments goes on the stack. Players can choose to either play spells or abilities before or after combat damage goes on the stack.

You resolve the top of the stack, whatever it is. If combat damage is the top of the stack, you resolve that. If a spell is on top of the stack, you resolve that. If an ability is the top of the stack, you resolve that. If there is nothing on the stack, you move to the next step/phase.

So to answer your question 2: it depends on when you play the instants. If you play them before combat damage is on the stack, they will resolve before combat damage goes on the stack. If you play them after combat damage is on the stack, they will resolve after combat damage is assigned, but before combat damage resolves.

[TheOldMan]

Thanks Apollyon,

Still confusing to me a little though.

You said: 
When both players do nothing after blockers are declared, combat damage assignments goes on the stack. Players can choose to either play spells or abilities before or after combat damage goes on the stack. 

And this:

it depends on when you play the instants. If you play them before combat damage is on the stack, they will resolve before combat damage goes on the stack. If you play them after combat damage is on the stack, they will resolve after combat damage is assigned, but before combat damage resolves.

So…  What happens if no spells or abilities were played immediately after blockers were declared, then the combat damage gets assigned (but damage hasn't resolved yet).  Now a bolt is played and I respond with CTW.  Does a player have to say "I'm playing this spell before, or after combat damage was assigned"?  How exactly do you know which is which?  An argument can be made for both things to be true, correct?  One person can say we played these spells after damage was assigned, and the other says, no we played these spells before damage was assigned.   Because combat damage is assigned to the stack, does that mean it is on the stack and it will resolve eventually? Can spells or abilities be played after combat damage is assigned, but before combat damage resolves?

TheOldMan

[Limbo]

1: So…  What happens if no spells or abilities were played immediately after blockers were declared, then the combat damage gets assigned (but damage hasn't resolved yet).  Now a bolt is played and I respond with CTW. 

The stack would look like this (from oldest to newest items): Combat Damage - Lightning Bolt - Culling the Weak
First the culling the weak would resolve (with the negator already in the yard -before- it resolves, as it is part of the payment to be made).
The lightning bolt would be countered upon resolution, as it lacks a legal target now.
Then the negator deals its 5 damage, with the damage of the goblin disappearing into nothingness.

2: Does a player have to say "I'm playing this spell before, or after combat damage was assigned"? 

No. The usual way to do this in the combat phase is that the active players asks "Combat damage on the stack?". This indicates that he hands over priority to the opponent. Then the opponent can choose to fire of spells / abilities (like your opponent did using the bolt), or wait until after combat damage is on the stack.

3: How exactly do you know which is which?
4: An argument can be made for both things to be true, correct?
5: One person can say we played these spells after damage was assigned, and the other says, no we played these spells before damage was assigned.

If you follow the point 2 guideline, no confusion will ensue.

6: Because combat damage is assigned to the stack, does that mean it is on the stack and it will resolve eventually?

This is indeed the case. However, be sure you know which creatures are around when you put combat damage on the stack. Also remember that "combat damage" is not an instant spell that you can put on the stack "at will". Combat damage on the stack can only be done with a fresh empty stack. So in your example, you can only go to the combat damage step after both other spells have resolved.

7: Can spells or abilities be played after combat damage is assigned, but before combat damage resolves?

Yes.

[Clariax]

2: Does a player have to say "I'm playing this spell before, or after combat damage was assigned"? 

No. The usual way to do this in the combat phase is that the active players asks "Combat damage on the stack?". This indicates that he hands over priority to the opponent. Then the opponent can choose to fire of spells / abilities (like your opponent did using the bolt), or wait until after combat damage is on the stack.

"No" while technically correct, doesn't really tell the entire story, and the "usual way" really holds little meaning unless both players are making use of that specific way.

Whenever you play anything, you need to be clear about when it's being played.  Sometimes this can be done without saying anything at all.  If you just drew a card for your turn and then play a forest, it's rather clear you're playing that forest during your first main phase.  Playing something after blockers are declared won't be so clear-cut without saying something.

Just the same, when your opponent plays something, if he's not clear about when he's playing it, you need to ask him to clarify.  Players being unclear about when things are being done generally requires a judge's intervention and may lead to undesirable results when the judge has to decide what was done when based on how he sees things.

An extension of this, which I see come up far to frequently; if your opponent is unclear about something, that doesn't mean you get to make the decision(s) for him.  When you tell a judge, "He wasn't entirely clear, I thought he was doing..." the judge won't be telling the opponent, "You made it look like {whatever} so that's how it is,"  he'll be telling you, "If it wasn't clear, you need to ask him to make it clear."

So, to sum up in a simple statement:  Announcing everything isn't required, but being clear (which often does require announcing) is required.