Aggro Control with the Parfait engine...

[Lazer]

Hi, I'm new here as of late but some of you might remember me as Astro (couldn't remember my old password and have since changed email addresses so I can't retrieve it).  Recently I've been casually playing with a buddy of mine.  We are both working on rogue decks hoping to get something new and fun up and running that is at least semi competitive.  Right now I've been working on a "counterless" aggro control deck that has the ability to combo out infinite mana and/or infinite life but more often than not simply wins with creature beats. 

We've done a bit of testing against Oath and Stax, and it seems to hold its own.  At first glance it appears to have serious mana issues, but I assure you I rarely get mana screw and almost always am able to cast whatever I want (any old school Parfait player will attest to this).  This is due to the unrestriction of Mox Diamond and the beauty of Land Tax.  The deck runs on the old and dated Deck Parfait engine (Land Tax, Scroll Rack, Zuran Orb), however is much more synergistic than old builds as newer cards such as Crucible add several utilities with many of the cards such as Wasteland, Mox Diamond, or Fast Bond plus its not a control deck.

SOME STRENGTHS:

Balance: The deck is fairly explosive at dumping its hand rather quickly in the first and/or second turn.  This is due to any combination in the opening hand including Mox Diamond, Lotus, Moxen, 1 cc spells, a land play, Fastbond, and 0 drops such as Zuran Orb.  This is nice followed by an early Balance as it forces your opponent to dump their hand.  Balance is extremely synergistic with: Land Tax and/or Zuran Orb, and/or CotW plus its just bad ass on its own and doesn't really need an explanation.

Land Tax:  This is nice up against the Stax players and truly any deck pushing mana screw.  It keeps my hand full and shuffles my deck which is great for the Scroll Rack combo and is synergistic with Zuran Orb, Mox Diamond, and/or simple mana color fix.  Its the most staple card in the deck.

Fastbond: Combos smoothly in the deck with Land Tax, or by it's self as an explosive first turn play.  Not to mention its synergy with Crucible of the Worlds.  When Fastbond and CotW are in play I can either go infinite life with Zuran Orb or an infinite attack with Order of Leitbur. 

Search spells:  Demonic, Enlightened, Vampiric are all great choices for this deck as it packs several silver bullets especially depending upon what is already on the table. 

Examples:

Land Tax + Scroll Rack
Land Tax + Mox Diamond
Land Tax + Zuran Orb
Land Tax + Balance
Land Tax + Fastbond

CotW + Wasteland/Strip Mine
CotW + Wasteland/Strip Mine + Fastbond (infinite armageddon)
CotW + Zuran Orb (gain life every turn or tap land for W sac it replay it tap it again for another W)
CotW + Zuran Orb + Fastbond (infinite life and/or infinite mana)
CotW + Zuran Orb + Balance
CotW + Zuran Orb + Order of Leitbur (infinite damage)


Cards for thought:

I'm not sure about Order of Leitbur.  Sure comboing out is great but is it just a win more?  I'm not to sure on this, however a great deal of the decks wins seem to be through the combo not to mention while Order of Leitbur isn't played all that often in Vintage it is a great card on its own.  It is pro-black, pumpable, and first strike, with the ability to combo off.  I'm unsure if something might be better.

The idea of including Tarmogoyf has been tossed around a lot, but over what?  Order of Leitbur?   

Another idea has been Jotun Grunt.  I like this idea due to the fact that I can recur spells to the bottom of my library and shuffle them back in with Land Tax, plus he munches my opponents graveyard and is a W1 cc beatstick to boot.  He doesn't work with Tarmogoyf so including both is moot.

What about Duress or Though Sieze?  The deck has no counterspells so you would think it needs some way to keep my opponent from doing what they want to do.  I just don't know what I would pull to include them as I would probably want to include at least 4 of either one.  I'm just not totally sure they are necessary.  I am running enough removal STP, Seals, Balance, Jitte, plus CotW+Waste+Fastbond keeps my opponent at bay until I can set up my defenses and combo out.

For the silver bullets, what about Chains of Mephistopheles?  While Land Tax, Dark Confidant, and/or Scroll Rack "put" cards in my hand rather than "draw" them, Chains wouldn't affect me.  I see it as the "Null Rod" for card drawing.  If your not going to draw cards, why should you let your opponent?  The downside to this is that it has potential of filling my opponents graveyard with goodies to be resurrected.  Thoughts?  Yay or nay?

I've also toyed around with the idea of splashing red, one mountain and a Barbarian Ring.  I haven't warranted its inclusion due to the fact that I don't want to splash another color however with Mox Diamond and/or Land Tax I haven't had trouble adding any color I want.  For obvious reasons Barbarian Ring is useful for waxing weenies such as Welders and Fish and is recurable with CotW and/or with a Fastbond on the table I can combo out.  Let me know what you think about its inclusion.  Its one I have been thinking about for a while.



10x BEATS
4x Meddling Mage
2x Order of Lietbur
4x Dark Confidant

18x UTILITY
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Fastbond
4x Land Tax
2x Zuran Orb
2x Scroll Rack
3x Crucible of Worlds
2x Umezawa’s Jitte

8x REMOVAL
1x Balance
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Seal of Cleansing


24x MANA SOURCES
3x Wasteland
1x Stripmine
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
4x Mox Diamond
9x Plains
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Island


The break down:
3 - 3cc
20 - 2cc
11 - 1cc
10 - 0cc
17 - Land

10 - Removal (counting Jitte)
10 - Beats
10 - Draw (plus draw combos, and not counting card advantage from CotW)
4 - Life gain (not that this is ever necessary but Zuran Orb is good on its own and Jitte is nice in a pinch, + the ability to go infinite)
3 - Search

Any other suggestions?  Maybe side board?  Or a name?

[meadbert]

I play a ton of turboland and I am pressure sure I play about as much Parfait as anyone else right now.  I have frequently considered a hybrid, but I have never actually bothered to seriously test one.

Here are a few comments and ideas to try.

First of all I can say with great confidence that by far the best unrestricted card in Parfait is Scroll Rack.  I would probably run 8 if I were allowed to.  It is so good that I have tried using Sensei's Diving Top as a poor man's Scroll Rack at times.  I strongly suggest running a full set of Scroll Racks.

In general Order of Leitbur seems very week to me as does Meddling Mage.  Seal of Cleansing is a strong card, but running four may be too many.  Seal is fairly terrible against many decks including TPS and Dredge.  Still, it is a strong card in the current meta and Null Rod is annoying for your deck so having answers to Null Rod, Oath, Time Vault, Painter and so many other threats is definitely good.

Some cards to consider:

Weathered Wayfarer:
Weathered Wayfarer is a 1cc beater who has the ability that you can pay  and tap him to find any land in your deck.  You can only do this if you have fewer lands in play than your opponent, but you should already be doing this.
Once you add the turboland engine along with Mox Diamonds, Weathered Wayfarer becomes pretty good.
There are three great uses for Wayfarer.  First you can find Strip Mine.  In a deck with Fastbond and three Crucibles finding Strip Mine is huge.
Next you can find a fetchland.  As long as you are running so many colors it is nice to have 1 Fetchland that could fetch out your off color Basics.
Third is Bazaar of Baghdad.  Bazaar probably does not make sense, but it is a nice little draw engine with Land Tax since you can put three new basics into your hand each turn and then discard them to Bazaar to draw 2 new cards.  I have tried Bazaar in Parfait in the past and it was fairly terrible at the time because between Mana Lands and Bazaars it is tough to have a Bazaar, enough mana sources and fewer lands than your opponent.  I only mention Bazaar here because with Mox Diamond unrestricted it may be possible to operate with fewer mana sources in play.

Bazaar of Baghdad:
See above.

Aura of Silence:
This is sort of like a disenchant that is also highly annoying for Long, Drain Tendrils and Empty Slaver.

Argivian Find:
White, 1cc, instance speed Regrowth for Enchantments/Artifacst.
I frequently run this as a 4 of in both Turboland and Parfait.  It really is amazing for getting back countered/Duressed Scroll Racks, Crucibles and Fastbonds.  Also it recurs Tormod's Crypt against Dredge which is nice.

Ethersworn Canonist:
2/2 for  {W}1
Says that any player who has already played a non-artifact spell this turn may not play another spell.
This would make a solid replacement for Meddling Mage since it hates out Storm decks very effectively.

Sensei's Divining Top:
This card is very good if you are shuffling each turn with Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer or even recurring a fetchland with Crucible.

Nomad Stadium:
Land that produces  for 1 life or you can pay tap it and sac it to gain 4 life.
There is an infinite combo with Crucible where you can gain infinite life with this card.  In this manner it sort of simultaneously acts as a Plains and a Zuran Orb.
I am not sure if this would work well or not, but it is probably worth trying.

Orim's Chant + Abeyance:
These guys are solid against Yawg decks, but with Tezzeret and Painter all over the place perhaps they are worse.

Children of The Korliss:
Good sideboard card against Tendrils based decks.

Ray of Revelation:
As long as you are running White and Green this is pretty good against Oath and Dragon.  It could make a decent sideboard card.

Wheel of Sun and Moon:
Solid sideboard card against Dredge although these days I generally run 4xCrypt, 4xPithing Needle, 4xChildren of Korliss and Moat to defeat Dredge post board.
Still I have not been running 4xMox Diamond.  Having 4xMox Diamond makes this more of a turn 1 play which drastically improves its playability against Dredger.

Pithing Needle / Tormod's Crypt:
Needle is solid against Dredge, Welders, Tezzeret, Time Vault and Grindstone.  Probably sideboard cards.
Tormod's Crypt just got worse, but it is still good against Dredge, Dragon and Yawgmoth's Will

Isochron Scepter:
This card is solid in Parfait if you run Orims and Abeyance, but I doubt it will work in your deck.

Moat/Humility/Ensaring Bridge:
I have run these in Turboland and Parfait, but these do not work if you keep your creatures.

In the past folks haved added Red to Parfait and used Lava Dart to drop down their land count so they can Land Tax.  Also they have used Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon to get more red mana and randomly hose their opponents.  Magus of the Moon sort of messes with any sort of Turboland combo, but it may be worth running.

You could for instance run a mostly Red deck with Red and Black splash.  This allows Magus, Lava Dart, Tutors, and Condifant.  You could run 1 Bloodstained Mire for Weathered wayfarer to find and then a Mountain and a Swamp.

I hope these ideas are helpful.  Please post with your results if you test any of the out.

[Xyre]

You don't need Order of Leitbur. Infinite life, infinite mana, infinite Wastelands, etc. is usually sufficient to win without a mediocre 2-drop that is useless if you're not comboing out.

[Lazer]

All interesting ideas.  As an old school Cherry and Chocolate Parfait player of the day, I can attest you are aware how the deck works.  I'll play this deck soon in a tourney (just moved to the east coast where all the action is).

I'll definitely take the advice on cutting the Leitburs.  I might up the Scroll Rack by 1 however with 4 maindeck Confidants and 3 search spells I'm not having a lot of trouble finding one.  If I was running fetchies I might bump it to 4, but I lack a way to shuffle outside of Land Tax.

I'll test it in a tourney soon.  What are you thoughts on Ground Seal and or Root Maze on the side against combo?

Gold fish the deck a few draws.  I think you'll really like it!  4 maindeck Diamonds really pulls the tempo of the deck up to speed. 


EDIT: (wanted to elaborate and didn't want to double post)

@Meadbert:

Not a fan of Bazaar in this deck, but there is interesting synergy with Land Tax.

As an old school Cherry and Chocolate Parfait player I think I used to run 3 main deck Scroll Racks.  If I had a way of shuffling my deck more often I think I would run 4.  I might bump the count up by 1, but I feel 4 might be too many.  I'm having no problem drawing into them with all the search and Confidants.

Your right about Order of Leitbur.  He really is good on his own, but he's not great and his ability to combo out is nothing more than a neat trick.  (it is neat though)

Weathered Wayfarer:  Not a huge fan in this build but I can see it in a fishier build.  It is nice to grab Strip Mine, but he has no synergy with Scroll Rack and you have to pay an activation cost of W every turn to use his ability.

Aura of Silence:  This is old school, I really do like this one.  I might -1 Seal of Cleansing +1 Aura of Silence.

Argivian Find:  Also old school.  Not sure if it fits in this build, maybe if it was a bit less aggro and a little more control.  If you notice I'm not even running Regrowth.  It wasn't testing well as early game I was always hoping it was something either helping to set up my engine or defenses.

Ethersworn Canonist:  This card is hot!  Not sure if I want to cut Mage's for it though, maybe cut the Leitburs.  Out of curiosity why not Meddling Mage maindeck?

Sensei's Divining Top:  I would really like to test this.  Have you had any success?

Nomad's Stadium:  This might need a maindeck slot, I'd like to test this as well.

Orim's Chant:  Not sure what I'd cut.  So good though!  Notice I'm not even running Time Walk.

Children of Korliss:  Definitely going to be on the sb.  Thanks!

Ray of Revelation:  Another good one!  Maybe sb?

Wheel of Sun and Moon:  This is so good against so many decks especially combo!  What do you think of Ground Seal and/or Root Maze on sb for the combo match ups?

Pithing Needle:  sb

The red splash is a different deck altogether.  However, it could be a stronger deck than what I have posted.


What do you guys think of these different creature sets:

If I splashed red the creature set might look like:  (I've been out of the loop since 2006 and have noticed Shaman and Lavamancer aren't played in Fish anymore, is this too dated?  And why?  I would think Lavamancer are a great way to keep weenies like Welder at bay and Shamans have great synergy with Crucible combos.)
-2 Order of Leitbur
-4 Meddling Mage
-1 Seal of Cleansing
=
+2 Gorilla Shaman
+2 Grim Lavamancer
+3 Magus of the Moon


For a speedier build, how about:
-1 Seal of Cleansing
-2 Order of Leitbur
-1 CotW
=
+4 Tarmogoyph


Another option maindecking Etherworn Canonist for a better combo matchup:
-2 Order of Leitbur
-1 CotW
-1 Seal of Cleansing
=
+4 Ethersworn Canonist

Ideas?  I'm also interested Root Maze and/or Ground Seal on the sb.  Thoughts?




 

[meadbert]

I would say that Ground Seal is fairly terrible.  In general I love Root Maze, but Root Maze's strength is that it is so powerful as a turn 1 drop.  If your opponent kept a hand with Fetch, Mox as their mana sources then Root Maze is better than Time Walk.

The trouble in your build is that with so few  sources it will be tough to drop Root Maze on turn 1 consistently enough.  For that reason I would think that something like Thorn of Amethyst, Orim's Chant or Abeyance would be better against Combo.

Meddling Mage is not that great right now in general, but I see how Mox Diamond makes him a far more common turn 1 play.

[Lazer]

I would say that Ground Seal is fairly terrible.  In general I love Root Maze, but Root Maze's strength is that it is so powerful as a turn 1 drop.  If your opponent kept a hand with Fetch, Mox as their mana sources then Root Maze is better than Time Walk.

The trouble in your build is that with so few  sources it will be tough to drop Root Maze on turn 1 consistently enough.  For that reason I would think that something like Thorn of Amethyst, Orim's Chant or Abeyance would be better against Combo.

Meddling Mage is not that great right now in general, but I see how Mox Diamond makes him a far more common turn 1 play.

Good call on the turn one Root Maze not always being a feasible turn one drop.  I honestly haven't had any trouble with a second turn Meddling Mage.  I'd really like to keep them in.  Care to elaborate on their shortcomings?

What are you thoughts on True Believer?

How about speeding up the deck with the above mentioned Tarmogoyf creature set?


==========================================================================================================================

EDIT:

I didn't want to double post.  Its been a few days and I'm hoping someone see this and bumps it to the top.  I've been play testing different builds and I feel I've come up with the final deck.  I do however need help with the sb.  On its own it holds up nicely to combo and after sb it should really own.  It's very strong against Oath and the Stax matchup as well.  I haven't tested it against Fish or Goblins so I'm not positive about the aggro control match up, but with 3 main deck Plows and 1 Jitte I think it should hold its own.

Here's the list:

===================
Aggro Parfait
===================

MEN 10x
4x Dark Confidant
2x Jotun Grunt
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x True Believer

TOOLS 8x
4x Land Tax
2x Scroll Rack
1x Zuran Orb
1x Crucible of the Worlds

SMASH 3x
3x Empyrial Armor

REMOVAL 9x
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Aura of Silence
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Umezawa’s Jitte
1x Balance

UTILITY 7x
4x Orim's Chant
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor

MANA 23x
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Jet
1x Sol Ring
4x Mox Diamond
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
10x Plains
1x Swamp
===================

The one card that really stands out here is Empyrial Armor.  This has really been strong and seriously seals the deal quickly.  I had originally opted for more control cards such as Trinisphere, however with all of the draw (4x Land Tax / 4x Dark Confidant) it makes my men huge and just ends the game fast.  This helps my aggro match up (as my men are bigger than yours) and also speeds the clock significantly.    Its synergy is amazing here.  Although its main weakness is that it puts your eggs in one basket, the strengths are enormous.  If you think of it as a huge 3 cc creature with haste its amazing.  It not only combos nicely with all the draw, Ethersworn Canonist really puts the smack as you are forced to hold cards.  This puts the "Aggro" in aggro control.  Its like casting a (often) 7/7 dude (or bigger) for WW1.  If you throw it on a creature that has been around for a turn or longer (doesn't have summoning sickness anymore) its like casting a 7/7 or potentially bigger dude with haste for 3 mana.  On a Canonist, Believer, or Confidant with 7 cards in your hand he's a 9/9 or 9/8 on a Grunt he's an 11/11.

The dudes are really good.  Canonists and Believers for the combo match up.  Jotun Grunt adds to the clock with cheap beats, munches my opponents graveyard often crippling the likes of Stax and Combo, all the while acting as a Soldevi Digger or Feldon's Cane putting all my juicy removal spells back into my deck.  Dark Confidant allows me to not just rely on Scroll Rack/Land Tax combo for draw, which is often times a bitch to set up.

Removal, I do feel I could bump up Aura of Silence but often times the speed of Seal of Cleansing is nice especially in an early mana pinch.  That gives me 4 artifact/enchantment removal (Aura of Silence is great in the Stax/Combo match ups).  3 Plows and 1 Jitte should take care of creatures, and I don't need to explain Balance.

Not that they need an explanation, but the search spells (the "Tudors") are great for setting up the draw engine or for retrieving silver bullets or Empyrial Armor for the finish.

Orim's Chants is my cantrip white Time Walk allowing me to establish my defenses early or giving me another turn to smash face with an Empyrial Armored dude.

It tests well and I feel this a strong build.  I chopped the green and blue out of the original deck as I felt the mana base was a bit too suspect.  Keeping the deck White with a splash of Black really solidifies the mana base.  Not to mention the lack of duals is great as there are really no targets for an opponents Wasteland.  This deck should never get mana screw, especially with Land Tax.

If I can get the cards together I plan on bringing this to either or both of the up and coming Myriad Tournaments scheduled for November and December.  Right now I'm playing mostly with proxies as I sold my collection a year and a half ago.  So if anyone is interested in this deck and wants to see how it fairs or simply wants to help a brother out by loaning some cards give me the pm!

I could also use some suggestions on the deck in general as well as a sb.  It would be helpful if someone could fill me in on the New England metagame as I just moved out here from the West Coast.  Finally I get to play in one of these East Coast tourneys I have always read about.