[Deck Discussion] Angry Hermit in 2007 - Woodstock.dec

[EKM_Ichorid]

Woodstock

THE WIN///17
4 Hermit Druid
4 Nacromoeba
2 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below
1 Gurzigost
2 Flame-kin Zealot

SUPPORT///4
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Legacy Weapon
1 Elvish Scrapper

TUTOR///8
R Vampiric Tutor
R Imperial Seal
4 Worldy Tutor
2 Sylvan Tutor

DISRUPTION///8
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy

MANA///23
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Simian Spirit Guide
R Black Lotus
R Mox Emerald
R Mox Jet
R Lotus Petal


SIDEBOARD///15
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Extirapte
3 Elvish Scrapper

I know. This deck looks janky. Flame-kin Zeolot? Gurzigost? WTF, right?

This deck is not even close to janky. It is actually an extremely efficent killing machine. This deck can consistantly win turn 3 and required minimal mulliganing. It justs needs to resolve and activate one card in order for the deck to win.

The deck plays out like this: You have 4 Hermit and 8 Tutors. That gives you an amazing chance of drawing one of those 12 in your opening 7. All the tutors are 1cc and can be cast turn 1 so you can play Hermit turn 2. Additionally, they are topdeck tutors so he can't be Therapied/Unmasked and you don't have to worry about drawing too many combo pieces. That is very, very important. You need atleast a combination of 3 Nacro/2 Bridge or 2 Nacro/3 Bridge to win. That doesn't include Dread Return, Flame-kin, Legacy Weapon or Gurzigost. Obviously, you don't want to draw too many multiples. You often may Duress or Therapy turn 1 instead of tutor and go for a protected turn 4 win. When you activate Hermit your going to sacrifice all your guys to play Cabal Therapies anyways, so you really just want to get rid of what could get rid of the Hermit.

One the Hermit hits play, you want to ensure it's survival. If you know they'll be able to remove it, you try to tutor for Safekeeper first. That protects it for virtually free and can help you pull off your Dread Return safely by fueling a Cabal Therapy. It's not essential every match, but it's an important card to include.

After your Hermit survives till turn 2/3/4, you are going to activate it. Now, I know what you are thinking. What if they Extirpate? What if they have counters? Extirpate is not scarey. What do they target? If they target Dread Return, I still will have a decent size army of 2/2s and should be able to smash face next turn. If they target Bridge from Below, I animate Gurizgost and go on to beat face. There really isn't a solid target for an Extirpate to begin with. If they have counters, I'm going to cast all my Cabal Therapies anyways. You should be able to empty their hand, hence why Gurizgost is a decent beater. If you grab the Nacros + have a Hermit out, you can still Cabal twice and buy time to refill your library full of Safekeepers with Gurizgost.

The 1x Scrapper is for against Pithing Needle/Tormod's Crypt/Enginieered Explosives. Those are the only maindeck cards to worry about.

The sideboard is basically protection and then some hate for Combo and Ichorid. Extirpate also helps get rid of pesky FoWs.

I think the deck has good matchups against most decks. Bomberman is obviously problematic because it packs removal, counters, needle, and graveyard hate all MD. This deck plays around hate much better than Ichorid because it can tutor for one of its many anti-hate creatures game 2 very easily. It's pretty cheap also.

What do you think? I think it's solid, efficient, and fast. And it's got a sick name - a hippie rockstar (Hermit Druid) attracts a huge mob of fans (2/2 Zombie tokens) and they all get blazed (Flame-kin Zeolot).

[LotusHead]

What's up with Legacy Weapon?

What's up with Flame-Kin Zealot?

Do I really have to look them up to verify that they both suck?  (Weapon due to 5 color needs, Zealot because I think it is that thing that make it bigger if it's enchanted?)

Don't assume we all know every card ever in Magic.  Explain, please.

[EKM_Ichorid]

What's up with Legacy Weapon?

What's up with Flame-Kin Zealot?

Do I really have to look them up to verify that they both suck?  (Weapon due to 5 color needs, Zealot because I think it is that thing that make it bigger if it's enchanted?)

Don't assume we all know every card ever in Magic.  Explain, please.

Legacy Weapon shuffles back into you library, so you don't deck yourself.

Flame-kin Zeolot gives all your creatures haste and +1/+1 when it comes into play.

[LotusHead]

Thanks for clarification!  My buddy used Flame-Kin Zealot in a crappy Kobold deck once (with Drill Sargent and everything.  Even won a gam with it.  Jank.)

Why Legacy Weapon over, say, Gaea's Blessing?

This deck is to0 weird for me to digest in one or to looking-overs, so I'll just ask about stuff I kinda have a grasp on.

[ErkBek]

I think you really need 4x Chalice in the maindeck to compete with Long and Gifts b/c 8x discard sadly just doesn't buy you 3 turns very consistently these days.

Also, I've got to think that you don't need 4 Nacromoeba and 4x Bridge to combo out. Lastly, do you have a plan vs. echoing truth on Nacromoeba mid-combo?

[Harlequin]

I ran some number ... because that's what I do.  And I disagree with your proclaimed statement about finding hermit. 
I calculate that you only have a hair better than 70% chance to find a 7 card hand with 2 mana and a hermit or tutor.

If it happens to be 2 lands, thats a turn 3 hermit activation.... after playing the druid on turn 2.  It just seems like this deck is completely inferior to other combo decks.  It has roughly the same kill-turn as ichorid, but packs less than half of the disruption ichorid has.  And it's slower than blecher, Long, Dragon.

Also its a lynchpin deck.  Meaning - do you have a realistic way to win without Hermit Druid?   The point is that you spend turns to protect the druid.  And you can't win immediately when he resolves.  It seems like you would loose to double counter, or 1 counter + 1 removal.  Also you have no recovery.  When that one druid fails to make it to next turn - you have no draw to get back on your feet.

[EKM_Ichorid]

I ran some number ... because that's what I do.  And I disagree with your proclaimed statement about finding hermit. 
I calculate that you only have a hair better than 70% chance to find a 7 card hand with 2 mana and a hermit or tutor.

If it happens to be 2 lands, thats a turn 3 hermit activation.... after playing the druid on turn 2.  It just seems like this deck is completely inferior to other combo decks.  It has roughly the same kill-turn as ichorid, but packs less than half of the disruption ichorid has.  And it's slower than blecher, Long, Dragon.

Also its a lynchpin deck.  Meaning - do you have a realistic way to win without Hermit Druid?   The point is that you spend turns to protect the druid.  And you can't win immediately when he resolves.  It seems like you would loose to double counter, or 1 counter + 1 removal.  Also you have no recovery.  When that one druid fails to make it to next turn - you have no draw to get back on your feet.

You don't think 70% is good? You can mulligan, so in alll practical use the chance is much better. With 8 tutors I haven't had mch trouble recovering.

The original version had less tutors and 4x Chalice of the Void.

It's slower than Dragon and Belcher, yes, but they are very easily hated. Dragon isn't a widely played deck for a reason. This deck is 100% harder to hate than Dragon because you can't just Extirpate WGD or counter Animate Dead. If you can't Crypt me immediately, something really big is coming into play.

70% of the time I can get a hand that can kill turn 3. Maybe I'm ignorant, but what are the numbers on Long, Dragon, and Belcher?

Echoing Truth isn't that bad. If they do, I sacrifice my Hermit to Cabal Therapy and then sac the tokens to Dread Return Gurzigost. Next turn put Safekeeper and a land on the bottom. Aslong as he doesn't get killed the next turn, you can now fuel Safekeeper enough to protect him.

I'm nervous that if I drop Nacros/Bridges, I risk the combo. I'll run different combinations.

[meadbert]

It is a bit higher than 70% if you consider cases like:
Hermit Druid,
Worldly Tutor
1 Mana

You can Worldly Tutor for ESG, cast Hermit Druid on turn 2 and win on turn 3.

There should be close to an 80% chance of having your win available in your opening hand.  The other 20% of the time you can mulligan.

Your other concerns are all valid.  Is there enough disruption?  What if Druid is countered?  What if your tutor for Druid is Duressed?

I would recommend decreasing the cards that win to the bare minimum.  Then add more tutors.  Survival of the Fittest can be good.  Possibly use Living Wish because it provieds flexibility to find answers or it can find a Hermit Druid in the board.  Add more disruption.  I recommend running Mesmeric Fiend.  With all of your acceleration he is a common turn 1 play.

[EKM_Ichorid]

It is a bit higher than 70% if you consider cases like:
Hermit Druid,
Worldly Tutor
1 Mana

You can Worldly Tutor for ESG, cast Hermit Druid on turn 2 and win on turn 3.

There should be close to an 80% chance of having your win available in your opening hand.  The other 20% of the time you can mulligan.

Your other concerns are all valid.  Is there enough disruption?  What if Druid is countered?  What if your tutor for Druid is Duressed?

I would recommend decreasing the cards that win to the bare minimum.  Then add more tutors.  Survival of the Fittest can be good.  Possibly use Living Wish because it provieds flexibility to find answers or it can find a Hermit Druid in the board.  Add more disruption.  I recommend running Mesmeric Fiend.  With all of your acceleration he is a common turn 1 play.

I dropped 1x Nacromoeba, 1x Simian Spirit Guide and 1x Bridge from Below for 3x Xantid Swarm into the main. However, I could drop those for 3x Mesmeric Fiend. I just feel that they can't effectively hit removal that well (when I sacrifice them they'll come back) but it may do it well enough.

I had 2x Living Wish oringally but it's very slow. I'd love to fit into Survival of the Fittest, but it's tough.

Woodstock

THE WIN///16
4 Hermit Druid
3 Nacromoeba
2 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below
1 Gurzigost
2 Flame-Kin Zealot

SUPPORT///3
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Serra Avatar

TUTOR///8
R Vampiric Tutor
R Imperial Seal
4 Worldy Tutor
2 Survival of the Fittest

DISRUPTION///11
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Mesmeric Fiend

MANA///22
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Simian Spirit Guide
R Black Lotus
R Mox Emerald
R Mox Jet
R Lotus Petal


SIDEBOARD///15
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Extirapte
2 Elvish Scrapper
2 Druid Lyrist

Serra now gives you plenty of time with Survival.

[meadbert]

What are the down sides to running 1 Dread Return, 1 Flame Kin Zealot, 4 Bridges and 2 Narcomoeba.

Sacrificing Druid and two Narcomoeba leaves you with 12 creatures in play.  You lose 3 to Dread Return and at most 3 to Cabal Therapies so you are still left with 6 Tokens and a Flame Kin Zealot.  That seems to be about the minimum needed.

[Harlequin]

What are the down sides to running 1 Dread Return, 1 Flame Kin Zealot, 4 Bridges and 2 Narcomoeba.

Sacrificing Druid and two Narcomoeba leaves you with 12 creatures in play.  You lose 3 to Dread Return and at most 3 to Cabal Therapies so you are still left with 6 Tokens and a Flame Kin Zealot.  That seems to be about the minimum needed.

The problem is what do you do when you draw a Narco or Bridge?  Bridge isn't so bad... because you waste a cabal discarding it.  Drawing a Nacro if you only run 2 would be bad.

[roberts91rom]

How do you stop Tormod's Crypt, Planar Void, Leyline, Withered Wretch, etc? Pre-board you have no answers and in your sideboard all you have is 4xChalice and the 2x{Tap} hit only 1 of 3 options.

[meadbert]

Based on Harlequin's comments it sounds pretty safe to run just one Dread Return since you can Therapy it if it ends up in your hand.
If you run 4 Bridge and 2 Narcomoeba then you should be okay so long as you do not end up with both Narcomoeba in your hand.

In the sideboard Pithing Needle could be pretty good.  Also, as long as you are running so many Spirit Guides and so few moxen Null Rod is worth considering as Gifts/Slaver hate and Crypt defense.

Running 1 Viridian Zealot can help post board since you have a ton of tutors to find him and he helps with Leyline and Planar Void.  Also, unlike Manaless Ichorid the beatdown strategy is much more viable for this deck.  By the way, would running City of Brass make sense so you can hard cast Narcomoeba?  Also City allows you to hardcast Ray of Revelation and Ancient Grudge if you decide to run those.  In the late game of a beatdown game hardcasting Flame Kin Zealot becomes an option.  I like Extirpate for dealing with Darkblast, but I wonder if Coffin Purge would be better since it has flashback.

[EKM_Ichorid]

How do you stop Tormod's Crypt, Planar Void, Leyline, Withered Wretch, etc? Pre-board you have no answers and in your sideboard all you have is 4xChalice and the 2x{Tap} hit only 1 of 3 options.

Crypt gets Chaliced and Scrapped. With 6 1cc tutors, I can get the Scrapper fast.

Same with Planar/Leyline. I just tutor a Lyrist out. 6 1cc tutors +2 Survival makes an extremely efficient creature engine. They will probably ever been seen pre-board except for against some Ichorid.

Wretch isn't as much of a threat because so many things go to the grave, they'd have to have a TON of mana open to actually leave me with no options. I think there is no way I wouldn't atleast get a Gurzigost in play against Wretch, there is just too much to take. He'd need to take Dreads + Bridges in order to really hurt me, and thats 6 mana. Usually he'll have like two or three. He'd take Dreads + a Bridge, but I still get a decent sized army.

[EKM_Ichorid]

Woodstock

THE WIN///14
4 Hermit Druid
3 Nacromoeba
1 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below
1 Gurzigost
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

SUPPORT///3
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Serra Avatar

TUTOR///8
R Vampiric Tutor
R Imperial Seal
4 Worldy Tutor
2 Survival of the Fittest

DISRUPTION///13
4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Wasteland
R Strip Mine

MANA///22
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
4 City of Brass
2 Simian Spirit Guide
R Black Lotus
R Mox Emerald
R Mox Jet
R Lotus Petal

SIDEBOARD///15
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Extirapte
2 Elvish Scrapper
2 Druid Lyrist

Waste/Strip is awesome if I need to go the Gurzigost route. I just use them to meet the upkeep requirement and then play them to create a soft-lock.

[Guli]

serra avatar?

[EKM_Ichorid]

serra avatar?

When it is put into the graveyard from anywhere, it is shuffled back into your library. I don't deck myself next turn just incase something goes wrong.

[Purple Hat]

assuming something goes wrong on the turn you attempt to go off, is the presence of serra avatar buying you 1 extra turn really going to matter?  this deck seems to fail much more catastrophically than that.

[Vegeta2711]

There's absolutely no point in building a safety net into this deck. The deck should be entirely focused around getting a turn 1 Hermit Druid into play followed up by a turn 2 activation -> Win. It's too bad there isn't an instant speed win for the deck, because otherwise this deck would be perfect for Summoner's Pact.

Things of note: 4 Bridge is practical overkill. Mesmeric Fiend is pointless in the deck, since your only intent should be casting Hermit or Duress + Tutor on turn 1. And not running Street Wraith is terrible when you're looking for one particular 4-of in the deck -and- it helps Worldly Tutor become a better tutor. No Demonic Tutor is also a joke in this style of deck, yet you're playing Survival?

Couple more things wrong, but you get the idea.

[EKM_Ichorid]

There's absolutely no point in building a safety net into this deck. The deck should be entirely focused around getting a turn 1 Hermit Druid into play followed up by a turn 2 activation -> Win. It's too bad there isn't an instant speed win for the deck, because otherwise this deck would be perfect for Summoner's Pact.

Things of note: 4 Bridge is practical overkill. Mesmeric Fiend is pointless in the deck, since your only intent should be casting Hermit or Duress + Tutor on turn 1. And not running Street Wraith is terrible when you're looking for one particular 4-of in the deck -and- it helps Worldly Tutor become a better tutor. No Demonic Tutor is also a joke in this style of deck, yet you're playing Survival?

Couple more things wrong, but you get the idea.

I could use 3 Bridge. I've just been scared of drawing too many combo pieces.

Fiend is good. It can easily be used turn 1 and kills Extirpate/Force/Tormods/Drain/Darkblast. It also helps versus combo. Why blindly play Hermit turn 1 or 2 when you can safely play it turn 2 or 3?

The great thing about this deck, in my opinion, is that it can win immediately, or it can win after disrupting. Obviously, you don't want to play Hermit into a Darkblast or a Force of Will. Duress/Cabal/Mesmeric helps.

And after Hermit activates, there is absolutely nothing catastrophic that can go wrong unless they have Tormods in play. In that case, you don't activate Hermit. That's why I originally ran a MD Scrapper, but I decided there aren't enough decks that run Tormod MD to justify running Scrapper in my own MD.

[Ifflejink]

What do you plan to do if your Dread Return gets hit by Extirpate? It doesn't really seem like you have to much of a response to it right now, since all of your disruption is sorcery-speed. Even with Duress and Therapy, there is always that chacne. A Krosan Reclamation and a Reanimate might help that, though.

[EKM_Ichorid]

What do you plan to do if your Dread Return gets hit by Extirpate? It doesn't really seem like you have to much of a response to it right now, since all of your disruption is sorcery-speed. Even with Duress and Therapy, there is always that chacne. A Krosan Reclamation and a Reanimate might help that, though.

You will likely have enough 2/2 zombies to attack lethaly next turn. Unless they have Orim's Chant or Ancestral Recall in hand, I'm certain I can still win.

You play like this. You hermit your library. You should have 3-5 creatures in play. You sacrifice the first to play Cabal Therapy. They will need to cast Extirpate. If they do, name Echoing Truth and then Therapy the rest of the cards in their hand. With 3 creatures in play and 3 BfB in grave, you will have 9 2/2s. That's 18 damage, which is lethal much of the time. Most of the time you'll have either 4 creatures in play or 4 BfB in the grave (you can Cabal your own BfB by the way) and will be able to attack lethaly next turn.

If you can't get enough to go lethal, save a Cabal Therapy. After you attack the following turn, you Cabal yourself for the Serra Avatar and swing for the win the following turn.

[policehq]

I like Serra Avatar over Legacy Weapon for the simple reason of Extirpate targeting Dread Return. If this should happen, you still have a sort of plan involving Survival of the Fittest and recurring Serra Avatar on your deck; you simply "don't find" another creature to put into your hand.

-hq

[EKM_Ichorid]

I like Serra Avatar over Legacy Weapon for the simple reason of Extirpate targeting Dread Return. If this should happen, you still have a sort of plan involving Survival of the Fittest and recurring Serra Avatar on your deck; you simply "don't find" another creature to put into your hand.

-hq

That's exactly why I made the switch. Usually I only need it once to get an extra turn or two to attack, but the option you described is also a great way to win if you can only get 4-5 Zombies.

[wethepeople]

Is there any particular reason why you choose not to run off-color Moxen?

[EKM_Ichorid]

Is there any particular reason why you choose not to run off-color Moxen?

The Guides are better because they get around Chalice and Rod. The on-color atleast produce colors I can use. If there were non on-color Moxen, I'd run all Guides.