Island Fish Joblonius

[jro]

Island Fish Joblonius
{}
Land Creature - Island Fish
If Island Fish Joblonius would come into play, remove three untapped Islands you control from the game instead. If you do, put Island Fish Joblonius into play. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
When Island Fish Joblonius leaves play, return the removed cards to play tapped under their owner's control.
6/8

Island Fish Joblonius
{}
Land Creature - Island Fish
(Island Fish Joblonius isn't a spell, it's affected by summoning sickness, and it has ": Add to your mana pool")
Island Fish Joblonius is blue.
If Island Fish Joblonius would come into play, pay and remove three untapped Islands you control from the game instead. If you do, put Island Fish Joblonius into play. If you don't, put it into its owner's graveyard.
When Island Fish Joblonius leaves play, return the removed cards to play tapped under their owner's control.
6/8

[Ephraim]

Do I understand correctly that this creature can be played for free, at the cost of a land drop, as long as you have untapped Islands to remove from the game?  If so, then I am cautious about the numbers.  Compare this to Primeval Force, which is an 8/8 for 2GGG and requires the sacrifice of 3 forests.  I will grant that Primeval Force is a particularly underwhelming card, but considering the similarities, it doesn't seem proper for the blue execution to be better than green one.  What I am seeing here is a 6/8 blue creature that comes into play a turn sooner than Primeval Force and which doesn't hurt you nearly as badly if/when your opponent kills it.  I think that I could get behind this being a 5/5, but that's about as big a creature as I could endorse.

On another note, should this have "Island Fish Joblonius is blue." in its text box?

[jro]

I was in a bit of a rush when I posted this, so I didn't have a chance to explain my thinking.  Yes, it is a "free" creature.  I was trying to update Island Fish Jasconius in such a way that it would be fetchable with Polluted Delta and the like, turning a classic "bombo" into an actual combo.  The existence of Dryad Arbor makes it possible to do this without straying too far from the text of current cards.  I figured I'd start out with something that mirrors the old Island-Fish as closely as possible.  I was thinking of submitting this as a 4/4, actually, but I decided I'd just make it a 6/8 (like old Island-Fish) and see if it couldn't be fixed somehow.  I figured having your islands turn into the Fish, and then having the islands come back when the Fish is "belly up" was good flavor that matched the "pay UUU to untap" of the old one.  This does make it undercosted, though.  I'd love to hear any suggestions that can fix this without getting too wordy.  For example, making him blue is a good idea, but will it fit on the card?  And maybe it should say something like "If this would come into play, pay 3 and remove three untapped Islands..."?  Basically, I want to keep the templating as simple as possible while trying to accurately mirror old Island-Fish.  I don't like the idea of saccing lands to get him in play though, because it makes him horrible against any kind of removal.  I guess I'd be willing to make the card horrible if necessary.  Maybe it will help new players learn that a free creature isn't free when it eats all your land and gets bounced.

[parallax]

Perfect Rendition of Fetchable Island Fish Jasconius
Land Creature - Island Fish
6/8
~This~ is blue.
If ~this~ would come into play, pay . If you do, put ~this~ into play. Otherwise, put it into it's owner's graveyard.
~This~ can't attack unless defending player controls an Island.
~This~ does not untap during your untap phase.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay      . If you do, untap ~this~.
When you control no other islands, sacrifice ~this~.
You may play ~this~ even if you have already played a land this turn.
~This~ may not tap for mana.

Many of these abilities could (and should) be removed. Mostly, a 6/8 blue creature needs to cost at least six or seven mana, depending on drawbacks. Keep in mind that being fetchable with Polluted Delta is a pretty strong advantage, too. Just make sure he can't be (easily) played before turn 7.

[Anusien]

Is this any different than just giving it text like Panglacial Wurm?

[Ephraim]

I think that Parallax's solution is a little bit extreme.  I would rather see something like this:

Island Fish Joblonius
UUU
Land Creature -- Island Fish
6/8

(Island Fish Joblonius is a spell, it's affected by summoning sickness, and it has ": Add to your mana pool"
Island Fish Joblonius is blue.
If Island Fish Joblonius would come into play, remove three untapped Islands you control from the game.  If you do, put Island Fish Joblonius into play.  Otherwise, put it into its owner's graveyard.
When Island Fish Joblonius is put into a graveyard from play, return the removed cards to play tapped under their owners' control.

***

One key difference between this and Dryad Arbor is that this is a spell (and also a land.)  This probably introduces ugly rules problems so some other solution may be required.  Requiring a payment of 3UUU and the removal of any three Islands you control would probably work.  (If Island Fish Joblonius would come into play, pay 3UUU then remove three Islands you control from the game...)  In that case, you could also state that Island Fish Joblonius is not a spell, synchronizing it with Arbor Dryad.

[jro]

I think that Parallax's solution is a little bit extreme.

I think he was posting that more as a "this is what it would look like if done 100%", not so much suggesting it as a real implementation.

Island Fish Joblonius
UUU

Yeah, I didn't want to do this because it would require introducing new rules (how to treat a land with a casting cost), whereas I think this can be done (somehow) under the old rules.
I'm updating him to include reminder text, be blue, and require a payment of 4 for it to come into play.  He seems a little too wordy now.  I think if this were done in a block with numerous other Land Creatures, perhaps the reminder text could be omitted.

[Nydaeli]

What if you made him a Creature - Island Fish without the Land type?  It possibly makes even less sense, but it means you can give him a mana cost and the like.  I'm not sure whether he would tap for or not.

God, this card is a rules nightmare.  And a flavor nightmare.  But AWESOME.

[Mr. Nightmare]

~This~ can't attack unless defending player controls an Island.
When you control no other islands, sacrifice ~this~.

Did they get rid of the "Islandhome" keyword?  It would save you a ton of room on the card.

[Nydaeli]

Did they get rid of the "Islandhome" keyword?  It would save you a ton of room on the card.

I think that was Shandalar-only.

[parallax]

Islandhome was keyworded a long time ago, but it is no longer a keyword. They don't print those abilities on creatures any more. They just use "~This~ can't attack unless defending player controls an island." now.

And you can't use a land subtype like "Island" without the Land type. It just messes everything up. I would consider a land with a casting cost, but I don't think that would be very meaningful.