- Running mana crypt is a bit questionable. The kill conditions in the deck, baring the quick tinker games, are not very fast. Couple that with the 4 skeletal scrying scrying and it seems like the deck puts itself at unnecessary risk. The addition of mana crypt doesn't seem particularly crucial either considering the highest casting cost category is four (excluding DSC) with only one card (fact or fiction). It's true that there are 10 cards with X in the casting cost, but taking into account what the cards actually are (4 repeal, 4 scrying, 1 mind twist, 1 DoJ), only 6 of them will be cast where X may be more than 2 in a normal game.
Crypts risks are real, but I added it because of possibly good Skeletal-Repeal interactions. I have tons of way to bounce back Crypt when it can become a pain, while it let me have an additional boost for largeer Skeletals since my first turns and it is a good way to auto-create a target for my own Repeals in which matchups where they can be easily cicled, feeding grave and letting you see more cards.
I realize how slow DoJ is compared to other killing conditions months ago, but, keeping white maindeck, I flet the need to optimize it as much as I can. DoJ + Balance are still two must have in a control deck if you are going to play the *Control* role. DoJ isn't small or slow during the midgame. The deck can develop a good amount of mana during the match and DoJ can both feed Angels or Soldier for a 2-turn-kills. Duresses and Mindtwist let me keep ToA in touch. There are really fewer deck that could produce so much selfdamage such as this one: I HAVE to discard from their own hands both Tutors and ToAs as soon as I can. If I can constantly accomplish this goal, both Skeletals damages and slow winners aren't that much crucial: I have tons of cards in hand and tools to deal with any non-storm threat.
- Running 3 flooded strand and 3 polluted delta is the wrong configuration; it should be 4 delta and X strand. The decklist contains a basic swamp, therefore 4 delta should be a requirement
That's my bad. I don't correct my manabase according to the last addition made: Swamp. Thanks for the hint.
- Running crucible of worlds in the sideboard doesn't seem very impressive in this deck. Even if the decklist were modified to include a strip mine in place of the mana crypt, the level of synergy isn't very impressive to include it in the sideboard. Including it maindeck with 2-3 wasteland or not playing it at all seems to be better.
You are true on this issue, CoW is one of the *so-so* cards added to sideboard. There is, indeed, a logic behind this choice: I wanted to both add more Tinker targets with
different porpouses and add another way to stop Fish or MW.dec to possibly lock you. As you can easily see, aside mana and lands, the deck doesn't produce permanents at all. I will enable me to possibly *escape* from fast lock in the largest variety of possible ways. I added both Sacred Ground and CoW, but I can switch S.Ground#2 for PithingNeedle#1, for the same porpouses too. If there will not be a better choice, I will leave CoW in, especially if I will be able to put a Stripmine somewhere... It isn't the *best* winning plan of the deck, but it is a strong possibility to simply autowin, slower matches ( CotVs + CoW+ Strip + Duresses ).
Why play this deck over any others? Especially in today's Meta which is dominated in large part by Gifts, Fish, and Combo? Gifts packs a similar array of disruption in the form of FoW, Mana Drain, Duress etc... (not always together) with a better card drawer namely Gifts which allows the player to win now... Fish is aggro (which traditionally beats control which is a reason exalted angels were added to old lists) and packs stp to deal with DSC if u get him out.... and Combo is combo which, although may be tough, can often force their game plan through and prevent your disruption through their own duress/FoW...
In essence, I don't understand why you took a list that looks similar to Gifts, added in a lot of repeal, balance, mindtwist and take out scrolls/gifts which are great draw engines that provide a signifant clock to compete against aggro as well as a way to find specific answers/cards when need be and expect it to be viable...
Sorry, but, even with the kindest intent of the world, I cannot see any significative similarity with Gifts.
Or... if yuo see similarities and are going to comparise those two decks because of *some cards in common*, you will be able to refer to ANY control deck as a *Gifts deck without cards X, cards Y and so on..."
This deck have 6/7Drawers and 4/5Duresses and both hand control and board control.
Gifts have a pletora of Tutors, and a lot of ways to pull out as effectively as it can, or 10-spells and a ToA or 20-tokens and a Walk.
On the other hand, while totally different, this decks can be preferred to Gifts itself for several reasons.
-Heavy hand control, let you castigate combo decks better than with Gifts
-CotVs or M.Mages, coupled with the rest of the deck, will even leave fewer space for victories to both Combo and Control-Combo decks in general
-Balance, Decree and Repeals, coupled with Duresses and Drains are good way to set up *Controllish* victories against Aggro and AggroControl decks. I don't mention TPC against them, only because it isn't *politically correct*. On the other hand, its effectiveness is stellar, even nowadays
-Control-Combo decks, a large part of the field, will be kept in touch with ease playing this deck: you will Duress them first, then Drain out things, then thin the deck in some way with Repeals/BS/Fetches and Draw tons of cards with Skeletals. This partial *control* will be reiterated unitl DoJ or TPC can be tutored for the win. Setting up wins in this way, is really SOLID, difficultly hatable and opponents cannot *rise* winning percentages against you post side with *some new sideboard spell* because you don't rely on nothing particulary.
-Stability and not-Red-able spells are KEY ways to possibly win.
Those arguments can apply to Gifts.dec too, but almost POST side and with this GREATER difference: they are going to win anyway when Gifts will set up victories and their grave *can* be crucial ( depending on the player piloting the deck ). 3C-C doesn't rely on special-effects-Kaboom to win. It simply... put pressure, draw cards and then, when needed ... win .. and in NO particular order!!!.
In other words, while I understand the viability of 3c and 4c control... I agree with zherbus that they ahve to be metagamed correctly to not only avoid splash hate but also so that they can work on his little 4 step planning system... The problem is that this version doesn't seem viable b/c you are using arguably a worse draw engine, to achieve the same win condition, and are packing a minimal differenc in disruption.
Take into account I read your entire post, agree with some parts but, the conclusions quoted really destabilize me a lot.
The list proposed here, isn't written in stone, is mine approach to that game-design and it performs *well* ( for what *Well* means, I FULLY FULLY FULLY remand you on Zherbus arguments: This list performs really well
with me. I'll hope you all can have the same good result, I'm having now with it ), with results being totally dependent on playskills' players and foresighting sideboard adaptations. I'm really astonished AGAIN on the comparisation with Gifts.
Drain + FoW + Mis-D arent' equal AT ALL to Drain + FoW + Duresses
No M.Scroll + Repeals + C.Wish + Balance aren't equal AT ALL to M.Scroll + Chain + H.Recall
Skeletals + Restricted aren't equal to Gifts + Restricted
TPC + DoJ are different from ToA + EtW
Why, on hearth, are you ALL going to compare those DIFFERENT knd of decks?
Have you compared Tog to Keeper in the past?
Is Tog, Keeper without Green and White and with other drawers and other winning conditions? ...of course... NO!
I'm not saying that there aren't similar components, playing Gifts or 3c-c, but THEIR OWN projection onto the game is COMPLETELY different.
3C.C is proactive as soon as he can with disruptions, it can sit down a bit in order to maximize drawers and counters and then it can reiterate those sequences until it can win.
Gifts is proactive as soon as he can with tutors, it can't sit down too much in order to maximize drawers and counters and it try to kill with his sequence of bombs+counterspell as soon as it can.That said, if I start first, I can Duress M.Scroll or Gifts away, leave them resolve BS+Fetch, leave them gain quality again while I'll surf through my deck with EoT spells.
Duresses are really good to disrupt solid but NOT flexible decks. As much as Balance and Mindtwist are ( the latter after a Duress' check is deadly ).
Skeletals aren't Blastable and my only regret against Control.Combo are their own broken hands, against which, really few decks can say to survive.
These are different thoughts from yours, but both of us can be true in the right game situation: I'm sure about my opponents as much you are sure of yours.
More, I'm sure to be able to play this deck near perfectly. So I can be sure of being able to foresight the worst game scenario, avoiding auto-lose.
I'm going to describe things in a better shape.
Against Fish, I tend to gain time thanks to Repeals and Drains. Duresses can avoid them to replay bounced back threats. Am I going to suffer something particular from them? Not at all. Their own best spell ( D.Confidant ) can be bounced back almost forever and they are consuming entire turns in order to regain a better board position. All their threats are killed by a single shot a well protected Balance and C.Wish can help you keeping opponent down on resources with a good instant choice. Skeletals aren't the best thing to resolve, especially if you are greedy and don't think about going around their own Dazes. Shutting Dazes down ( drawing one card less is enough ), you are facing 4 FoW with 4 FoW, 4 Drains and 3/4 Duresses. Aside from unexpected STRONG and UNUSUAL winning race, Fish cannot compete with the cards drawing from your own first or second Skeletal. You better answers ( board control, hand control, drawers ) are ALWAYS 1 for X while their answers are, usually 1 for 1. This gap, if you are able to build a stable mana base, is KEY for every win. I don't underestimate Fish, but I know they aren't going to win too easily against you. You, instead, will lose if you keep low mana hands.
Against MW.dec, there are 2 or 3 key spells to search for and resolve.
Balance is the end all. You are going to win negating, in a single shot, both their own Welders and their fatties. No switches are possible. You are going to regain board parity with a single parity. If you built your play in a *pretty standard monoU style*, MW.dec will not easily destroy your mana base ( post side, it is nearly impossible ). CotVs aren't effective ( aside from being played at 1, negating Repeals on them ) and their own worst threats can be answered with mana and C.Wish. If they are smart, they can put a quick CotV@1 to steal you a lot of spells. Preside, you have to be lucky to hit C.Wish or playable tutors as soon as this situation comes down. Post side, you have tools and protections to escape from almost any lock. You winners, slow and fats are good too. DoJ can give you time creating tokens even under their own lock and with only mana at your disposal while TPC simply put them on a tremendous clock. Is this game winnable? Yes. Is it easy? No, but I'm not advocating a simple or linear decks at all
Against Control.Combo decks, you have to check out for ToA and Y.Will with your Duresses ( or cheaper bombs, of coourse ) as soon as you can. There are really few things to do when you are low on life and they can simply play 2 moxen and win with a stupid ToA. Their own aggressive strategy can be antisinergic with your own drawing strategy, but you should not abuse of it blindly. Disrupt their hand first, gain a bit of time and capitalize your resources. Then you can Scry for some new fresh cards, depleting your life points but being sure that you will not die to freequently from opponents' *random topdeck*. If you are wise, you can win. If you are too predictable, you can only lose.
Against Speed.Combo decks, Duresses and good hands are required. Drains + Duress can be simply TOO MUCH for them to recover. Duress aways something and counter their own slower threat. Are they going to topdeck better things AGAIN? Maybe you have FoW or Answers for their own lucky draw. Belcher is a cool opponent but, aside from first-turn-kill or broken hands, your deck can manipulate enough to survive and win. Against TPS or Long or Dragon, you need more more more foresight and ... a good sideboard. Any skeletal you resolve is a gift for them. You are going to give them free spells and every draw you *miss* is another walk towards splendid losses. On the other hand, they won't win soon ALWAYS and you are going to start games meanly 50% of the times. Games descriptions are really difficult without any actual data, but there are a lot of hidden hints through this words.
The optimal rule to apply forever, while playing this deck is *DON'T TAP YOU OUT* while his own best corollary is *BE WISE!!!*.
You cannot underestimate opponents.
Almost never!
On the other hand, you have tools and resources to win.
Almost always!
Repeat with me:
DON'T TAP YOU OUT!
BE WISE!
MaxxMatt
