UrPhid, ELD's Mox Jet

[Kowal]

So my finish wasn't terribly spectacular, but I figure enough people are going to WTF at the list to make a tournament report worth it.

Unfortunately, my memory isn't that sharp and I didn't take notes, so this is doomed to be a short thread, but..



UrPhid, 2007, Ben Kowal

4 Ophidian
2 Meloku, the Massive Boner

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection
1 Counterspell
1 Disrupt
1 Red Elemental Blast

3 Fire/Ice
2 Blood Moon
2 Merchant Scroll
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Echoing Truth
1 Dominate

1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
7 Island

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Serum Powder
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm


Round one:  Tog
I saw Gush and Psychatog, and the three colors GAT runs, but I never saw dryads.  I assume this gentleman was playing a list very similar to the one JP Meyer made finals with during the first GAT era in Syracuse.
Game one I keep a marginal hand and his is extremely solid.  I hold him off for a while, but he keeps topdecking spells I can't handle, and eventually casts Yawgmoth's Will.
Game two I find and resolve Blood Moon.
Game three I resolve an early Ophidian, which digs its way in to a healthy supply of Red Elemental Blast.  We fight a couple little counterwars but he never really has a chance to win them.

Round two:  Trinket SS
Game one I resolve early Meloku with Misdirection backup, and his deck begins to suck very rapidly.
Game two he finds and resolved three Old Man of the Seas.  I didn't see that coming at all, and in spite of REBing two of them, I can't answer everything in time.
Game three I have to mull, I keep a great six card hand except it only has one island.  I never find another one the entire game, which was something like 26 cards deep.  Again I answer two of three Old Mans.

Round three:  Belcher with ETW
Two ridiculously fun games.  The first game goes back and forth a bit, but it ends when I find Engineered Explosives to wipe his board including 4 goblin tokens and some moxen. 
Game two is much of the same, except with sit on our thumbs a lot longer.  I wasteland his Taiga and his deck does nothing devastating for about ten or fifteen turns while I topdeck counters and not Ophidians or Melokus.  Eventually I do, and take the match.

Round four:  Staxless Stax
Game one is interesting.  A combination of disposable mana and Engineered Explosives leaves him with just a tapped Mana Vault for several turns, and while I'm at 7 from Shaman beats, I have an Ophidian in play at this point.  I start attacking, not because I want cards, but because if I deal damage with Phid I'll kill him before he kills me.  I end up finding Fire/Ice, and save it to go to the dome, but I never have to.
Game two he draws a pretty broken hand and my hand does nothing.
Game three I mull to five cards and start Island, go.  He leads with Workshop, Mox Jet, Black Lotus, Uba Mask, Trinisphere.  Um yeah.  I'm not ready to scoop yet though, so I flip my first card--  Island.  Off to a good start.  I pass.  He flips over workshop and plays it, but evidently is holding nonartifacts because he passes back.  I flip Flooded Strand.  How good.  I play it and pass.  He flips another workshop, and passes.  I flip Ancestral, play the Island in my hand, and opt not to play the ancestral.  He flips City of Brass, and plays Goblin Welder with it.  I allow it to resolve and cast Dominate on his endstep.  Hot.  I untap, flip over some spell I can't cast, play another land, and pass the turn.  He flips Platinum Angel and passes.  I weld out a lock part for Black Lotus, and play Engineered Explosives on my turn.  He flips Sundering Titan, so I weld out his Uba Mask.  He swings in for four.  I blow up Explosives on his endstep, leaving him with a board of lands, Trinisphere, and Platinum Angel.  I untap and draw, and pass the turn, welding out Platinum Angel after she hits me for four again.  I Ice trinisphere to shut it off and get a card three turns in a row, use the welder to recur Engineered Explosives for me when I need it, and when time is called, I play Meloku which prompts him to scoop.  Whew!

Round Five:  ID with GAT

Top Eight:  Rich Shay GAT
I win game one like I usually do against GAT.  Rich makes a misplay that causes him to two for one himself because of my misdirection.
Game two I resolve blood moon, and he topdecks Mox Jet, Mox Sapphire, and Mox Emerald.  Grr.
Game three I screw up, and it's a screw up that allows Rich to target himself with Ancestral instead of me.  Rich says I would have beaten him easily if I had misdirected it.  Oops.


So that's the short version.  Sorry this isn't more detailed but as I said, I didn't take any notes.

[ErkBek]

Thanks for the report Kowal, I was curious to see how things ended up for you on the day. I can't believe you won that game 3 vs. stax when you mulled to 5, you earned the top 8.

You said that you are comfortable with 2 Blood Moons, but it seems like blood moon is more of a bomb than ever right now, wouldn't it make sense to bump it up to 3. Very few decks can support Blood Moon and your manabase is built to do so. So, why not?

[Zherbus]

Congrats on the performance, though I lament the return of URPhid. I agree with kobefan on Bloodmoon, I tilted my head at seeing only 2. Though, to be honest, I have no idea what you'd want to cut for the third. Maybe a leak or the REB.

[Anusien]

Why Blood Moon and not Magus of the Moon?  Is it the return of StP to some decks given GAT's return?  It seems like most of the decks running StP are the decks that Blood Moon is less effective against (Fish, Bomberman).

Why Meloku?  In the past you've just used Shackles + Ophidian as a win condition.  Is it to force GAT to go to Berserk to beat you?

[orgcandman]

I'm curious about why you aren't running brainstorm or impulse. Also, have you missed FoF at all, or has that card been pretty much frown town.

I also am curious about the blood moon vs. magus. In my own Urphid build, I've been running magus over regular bloodmoon, but that's because in your 2nd meloku slot, I've been running a teferi. Although, after more testing, I may switch that out to the second meloku.

I like the shamans in the side, but are the serum powders really worth it? I've been running propaganda as a way to hate out ichorid and other fishy aggro decks.

-Aaron

[ErkBek]

To save Kowal some time on the Magus of the moon topic, here's what he told me in some exchanged PM's

Basically, I still like Blood Moon better, since I suspect New England players will still be packing red solutions to aggro decks.  If you're expecting duresses, Magus is a fine call.  I did notice when testing with Jesus that Moon effects raped whatever variety of combo he barned off you, so if you're looking to smash your own barns, it seems like a good way to do it.

[Kowal]

Wow, lots of things to reply to.

1) Blood Moon being three slots
I am anticipating running more Blood Moon effects the next time I run the deck.  I will probably remove the Wasteland for another fetchland if I do it, and it will occupy the space of the Disrupt in all likelihood.

2) Meloku vs Shackles
Meloku is the straight up bomb diggity.  A resolved Meloku means that decks have to try to access their auxillary plans, which usually fail miserably against a counterheavy deck like UrPhid, especially in the presence of Blood Moon.  Forcing GAT to resolve a wish for Berserk, and forcing Bomberman to actually combo out, is very certainly worth the mana investment.  Meloku is also just a wrecking ball against Stax and Fish, and a fairly quick and efficient clock against anything else.  While against combo it's not as ideal as say, Tinker, it's considerably better than that against the rest of the field.

3) Moon vs Magus
Put very simply, there are lots of red ways to kill creatures, and no red ways to remove enchantments.  I will probably sideboard Magi of the Moon to bring in against GAT, but aside from that I really just prefer the moon.

4) Lamentation
<3

[Sextiger]

Have you tried Chalice at all recently in the maindeck? It seems a natural fit for that deck since you a) have barely any 1 cost spells and b) can use it for 0 for moxes and use the blood moons for the lands.

What matches do you side in pyroclasm? Fish? I use to love FTKs in the side, they still beat up on a lot of decks. 

[Kowal]

Chalice has actually been in every draw-go build I've made except for this one since I ran monoblue just after Gencon 04.  I cut it because it's pretty crappy hate against decks like Flash, Ichorid, GAT, Bomberman, and Fish.  The only matchups it was particularly good against are no longer played--  Pitchlong, Grimlong, and Bird Shit.

FTK over Pyroclasm is a change I'm almost certainly making before Waterbury.  Pyroclasm was a huge letdown, and FTK would have singlehandedly won me at least two of the games I lost on the day.

[Shock Wave]

Chalice has actually been in every draw-go build I've made except for this one since I ran monoblue just after Gencon 04.  I cut it because it's pretty crappy hate against decks like Flash, Ichorid, GAT, Bomberman, and Fish.  The only matchups it was particularly good against are no longer played--  Pitchlong, Grimlong, and Bird Shit.

FTK over Pyroclasm is a change I'm almost certainly making before Waterbury.  Pyroclasm was a huge letdown, and FTK would have singlehandedly won me at least two of the games I lost on the day.

What matchups would FTK improve for you? I've found that he is very hit/miss vs. GAT, because if they grow their Dryad too big (and he often gets big very quickly, beyond FTK range), then FTK just becomes a crappy chumper.

[Kowal]

Well specifically, he's just better than pyroclasm against Bomberman, Fish, and anybody bringing in Old Man of the Sea.  I didn't expect to see the lattermost at this event, but I got reamed by it, so it's going to be something I consider in future events.  Aside from Old Man, he's a damn solid clock that removes Salvager and Grunt on his way in, which is excellent.  I would not board him in against GAT.

[Shock Wave]

Well specifically, he's just better than pyroclasm against Bomberman, Fish, and anybody bringing in Old Man of the Sea.  I didn't expect to see the lattermost at this event, but I got reamed by it, so it's going to be something I consider in future events.  Aside from Old Man, he's a damn solid clock that removes Salvager and Grunt on his way in, which is excellent.  I would not board him in against GAT.

Yup, can't disagree there. Pyroclasm is somewhat assy. I was thinking about the GAT matchup in particular, but you're right, FTK is better against the other aggro-ish strategies.

[breed]

Nice result with a really cool deck. As I'm an old player of UR or UW control decks, I'm interested by your list. I was thinking Control was not a good choice in the actual format, but it seems playable.

@Kowal: Do you feel that UrPhid can be a real contender in the format? Your list seems quite good, even if I'm thinking that you would remove the Wasteland. I will try your deck in a little tournament with a lot of rogue decks.

 

[zeus-online]

This is so AWESOME, i love ophidians

Have you thought about adding black for demonic and will?, i know this deck dosn't abuse will as badly as many other decks, but it can still be pretty bomby.

Are the merchant scrolls really all that good in this deck? With all those counters, sorcery speed is a serious draw-back....Have you thought about replacing them with either impulse or cunning wish?

Oh...and why split disrupt/counterspell/REB? Why not the 4th leak, and 2 REB's ?, i much prefer consistency to variety.

/Zeus

[Kowal]

Demonic and Will are actually not that great in the deck.  Merchant Scroll is pretty much Demonic but pitchable and on color, and Will would do nothing but let me re-cast Time Walk.  In that respect, Recoup is reusable, on color, cheaper, and still bad.  Splashing for those would almost certainly be a mistake.  I could understand a very light splash for Yixlid Jailer, but that's basically it.

As I said, in regards to Merchant Scroll, it's basically Demonic Tutor.  If Impulse were guaranteed to get me Ancestral/Dominate/Echoing Truth, I'd run it.  If Cunning Wish didn't cost too much mana and again not fetch Ancestral (or Drain, which is really my second most common target.)

The split counters is based on a theory from Marc Perez's deckbuilding when gay/red was a real deck.  If you run a couple diverse disruption spells, you either catch your opponent with their pants down, or you force them to play around spells you run almost none of.  Consistancy is probably better now that the list is public, but I will likely still run a fairly diverse counterbase.

That said, maindeck REB is almost always the bee's knees, so running multiples of it is definitely something I'm considering.

[Cane1024]

 
                            Its Nick, the guy you played in the first round with Tog. Damn counter wars went back and fourth like 6 times. You just had too many counters for me, good stuff. Glad to see you did well with URphid. I just started playing again since 02-03 and I used to play URphid-GAT-Hulk alot back then. I top made top 16 with URphid at a mana drain open back then and I used to do well with it. I think I might start messing around with a build also.

Im not sold on the win condition yet with the massive boner guy. 1 Tinker/Collosis + 1 Meloku maybe? Cant think of much else.

Also I feel that I would run more wastelands. There so good in this deck.

Also what about Threads of Disloyalty in the board.

FTK is a nasty side board option although pyroclasm is very good also. Im sold on FTK though.

Everything else looks pretty solid.

[mutedequilibrium]

Kowal, I'm astonished and delighted that someone is finally trying to bring this back. This was one of the first real type one decks I was exposed to, so many years ago, when Stax was still called Duct Tape, and people were playing Masknought and Nether Void. I remember the best game of magic I ever played was against Kevin Cron at Origins a few years back, my URPhid vs his Hulk. Ah, the good days!

A few questions about card choices, looking back on old builds from memory..

Cunning Wish? Man lands, like Factory? Shaman main?

Also, how's your matchup vs Long or Flash?

[Kowal]

Shaman is a weak card, if only because your gameplan is no longer mana denial so much as color denial.  While Shaman does play a role in this (by eating Mox Sapphire, as an example) it doesn't actually make a big enough difference to want to run him maindeck.

Manlands are very bad, because you maindeck Blood Moon.

Cunning Wish is a reasonable suggestion and something I am considering.  It costs a lot to not counter a spell right now, but it IS highly versatile.  The biggest problems I have with it are that it clogs up my slots at 3cc, and it requires some bastardizing of my sideboard (which is already tight on slots, especially if I want to not autolose to ichorid.)

The matchups for Long and Flash are actually pretty good.  I used to beat the crap out of GrimLong with my old Chalice Monoblue list, and while Chalice played a large role, I feel that Blood Moon is a considerably better hoser than Back to Basics there, and being able to run REB also makes a huge difference.  Certainly so big a difference that the lack of Chalice doesn't hurt as bad as it'd seem on paper.  As far as Flash, I know I'd definitely rather be the person holding REB than the person running Chalice.    While I've tested neither enough to say it's extensive, I'm familiar enough with both matchups to claim that it's in this deck's favor.  Flash rolls over if you beat its initial rush, which this deck is well prepared to do, and modern long decks do not want to see a deck where Duress resolving only reveals they have to play through triple counter.

[mutedequilibrium]

Shaman is a weak card, if only because your gameplan is no longer mana denial so much as color denial.  While Shaman does play a role in this (by eating Mox Sapphire, as an example) it doesn't actually make a big enough difference to want to run him maindeck.

Hrm, I can see that.. What about Null Rod, then?

Manlands are very bad, because you maindeck Blood Moon.

Ah, should have clarified. I meant as a SB card for decks that Moon sucks again [Fish, Bomberman, etc]. Maybe FTK would just be better though.

Cunning Wish is a reasonable suggestion and something I am considering.  It costs a lot to not counter a spell right now, but it IS highly versatile.  The biggest problems I have with it are that it clogs up my slots at 3cc, and it requires some bastardizing of my sideboard (which is already tight on slots, especially if I want to not autolose to ichorid.)

It seems like there could be better answers to Ichorid than Leyline and Serum Powder. I 2nd the suggestion of Propaganda. That was something I used long ago when I was messing around with URPhid. Seems like it would even be decent against other random aggro.

The matchups for Long and Flash are actually pretty good.  I used to beat the crap out of GrimLong with my old Chalice Monoblue list, and while Chalice played a large role, I feel that Blood Moon is a considerably better hoser than Back to Basics there, and being able to run REB also makes a huge difference.  Certainly so big a difference that the lack of Chalice doesn't hurt as bad as it'd seem on paper.  As far as Flash, I know I'd definitely rather be the person holding REB than the person running Chalice.    While I've tested neither enough to say it's extensive, I'm familiar enough with both matchups to claim that it's in this deck's favor.  Flash rolls over if you beat its initial rush, which this deck is well prepared to do, and modern long decks do not want to see a deck where Duress resolving only reveals they have to play through triple counter.

I agree that Moon is the best card against GrimLong. My testing partner John has always said that Moon was pretty much GG every time it came down, but fortunately wasn't good enough against other decks to be a viable option. Now that GAT has made a comeback and Gifts is non-existant, non-basics seem to be making a strong comeback, and Moon seems to be absolutely awesome for that. Seems like it'd be pretty decent vs Stax, too. How's that matchup, btw? Do you just hope for counterability or die?

[Kowal]

The Stax matchup is actually really good, because you're the only control deck in the format running more than three basic islands, and you maindeck removal for Welders.

Null Rod seems unnecessary and dangerously narrow.  Hating artifacts in this fashion really just isn't that good right now.  A lot of the better decks in the format (like GAT, and really even Bomberman seeing as it's an aggro deck against you) ignore it almost entirely.

The Ichorid Hate Dilemma:
Propaganda is awful.  Really awful.  The problem with hating ichorid is that your hate really has to prevent their deck from functioning, not prevent it from killing you.  If you let them build up board position so they can start casting spells, removing or ignoring your Propaganda will not be terribly difficult for them.  A build with a full set of Dread Returns can win through it by returning a troll, two dryad arbors, and the zealot after therapying you to death.  A build with mana can just return a troll or a ghoul and pay the two mana to swing in.  Further, against pretty much every deck (except maybe Bomberman since it has hate better than Leyline) it's going to be bringing in enchantment removal specifically for LotV.  A good hate card for Ichorid has to be a non-enchantment, that actively hampers their gameplan.  In this respect, Pithing Needle or Tormod's Crypt are considerably better than Propaganda, and are even cheaper.

The only enchantments that seem reasonable are the two Leylines (Void and Singularity) and Aether Flash (which is obviously too expensive at 2RR to be cast reliably in this deck.)  I suspect that the best gameplan involves running many Tormod's Crypts, and bringing in all the sideboard critters to try to race.  If you see two Tormods, you can make an FTK go the distance before the Ichorid player can stop you.  And if they start getting bridges online, you can FTK your own stuff to make the bridges go away.  I have even considered boarding Mogg Fanatic as a method of trying to race while simultaneously getting rid of my opponent's bridges (and two attackers while he's at it).  He's absurdly narrow, but less so than Leyline of the Void in the deck.