Dread Return

[desolutionist]

I've been testing Ichorid in this format for the past two days and, even though it is completely Legacy legal, discovered an awesome build that wins on turn 1 close to 50% of the time. (Almost always fizzles otherwise)

4 Lion’s Eye Diamond
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Deep Analysis
4 Street Wraith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
4 Narcomoeba
3 Cephalid Sage
3 Flame-Kin Zealot
3 Dread Return
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
3 Shambling Shell
4 Serum Powder
4 Basking Rootwalla

Like Vintage Ichorid relies on Bazaar, this build relies on LED.  The only difference is Bazaar works on its own; LED doesn't.  So instead of auto-mull into Bazaar, you have to actually think about how things will play out in conjunction with the LED.  LED + Cephalid Coliseum + Deep Analysis is practically a guaranteed win but so is something like LED + Rootwalla + Deep Analysis.  If you're on the draw, its worth keeping something like LED + Cephalid Coliseum + dredger for the turn 2 win.  Anyway, I'm not too familiar with the probabilities and common patterns yet, so I can't write the most detailed primer -- I might eventually.

[dangerlinto]

I'm trying to compare it to this list

4 Cephalid Sage
2 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
2 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deep Analysis
4 Dread Return
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Serum Powder

Looks like the difference is +4 Street Wraith's, +4 Bauble, -4 Rootwalla, -2 Shell and -2 Zealot

This list was showing most turn 2 and 3 wins, and it, on the face of it, appears much faster as it draws into far more cards on turn 1-2 with bauble and Wraith.

I don't see how you can't include wraith in such a list, but I'm not really an ichorid expert.

[desolutionist]

I'm trying to compare it to this list

4 Cephalid Sage
2 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
2 Shambling Shell
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Street Wraith
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Deep Analysis
4 Dread Return
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Serum Powder

Looks like the difference is +4 Street Wraith's, +4 Bauble, -4 Rootwalla, -2 Shell and -2 Zealot

This list was showing most turn 2 and 3 wins, and it, on the face of it, appears much faster as it draws into far more cards on turn 1-2 with bauble and Wraith.

I'm playing Cephalid Coliseums and zero Ichorids.

I don't see how you can't include wraith in such a list, but I'm not really an ichorid expert.

There isn't ever a time that you have it in your hand with dredgers in the graveyard.  They just complicate mulligan decisions; I cut them for Rootwallas.

[diopter]

I don't see how you can't include wraith in such a list, but I'm not really an ichorid expert.

There isn't ever a time that you have it in your hand with dredgers in the graveyard.  They just complicate mulligan decisions; I cut them for Rootwallas.

Cycle Street Wraith, in response activate LED, discard your hand, let the Wraith cycling trigger resolve and dredge.

[desolutionist]

I don't see how you can't include wraith in such a list, but I'm not really an ichorid expert.

There isn't ever a time that you have it in your hand with dredgers in the graveyard.  They just complicate mulligan decisions; I cut them for Rootwallas.

Cycle Street Wraith, in response activate LED, discard your hand, let the Wraith cycling trigger resolve and dredge.

Yeah, I'm a noob.

-1 Dread Return
-1 Shambling Shell
-1 Cephalid Sage
-1 Flame-Kin Zealot
+4 Street Wraith

[DJ Catchem]

I don't see how you can't include wraith in such a list, but I'm not really an ichorid expert.

There isn't ever a time that you have it in your hand with dredgers in the graveyard.  They just complicate mulligan decisions; I cut them for Rootwallas.

Cycle Street Wraith, in response activate LED, discard your hand, let the Wraith cycling trigger resolve and dredge.

Yeah, I'm a noob.

-1 Dread Return
-1 Shambling Shell
-1 Cephalid Sage
-1 Flame-Kin Zealot
+4 Street Wraith

Wraith makes Ichorid much better as well.  I can see how the Rootwalla act as a sort of one-shot Nether Shadow here, but why not use the namesake?

--->DJ

[desolutionist]

I don't see how you can't include wraith in such a list, but I'm not really an ichorid expert.

There isn't ever a time that you have it in your hand with dredgers in the graveyard.  They just complicate mulligan decisions; I cut them for Rootwallas.

Cycle Street Wraith, in response activate LED, discard your hand, let the Wraith cycling trigger resolve and dredge.

Yeah, I'm a noob.

-1 Dread Return
-1 Shambling Shell
-1 Cephalid Sage
-1 Flame-Kin Zealot
+4 Street Wraith

Wraith makes Ichorid much better as well.  I can see how the Rootwalla act as a sort of one-shot Nether Shadow here, but why not use the namesake?

--->DJ

There is no Ichorid in the deck because it is too slow.  This deck always aims to win on turn 1 and if it can't quite get there, wins on turn 2. 

Rootwalla has been amazing and probably the only reason that this deck wins on turn 1 as often as it does.  Without Rootwalla, you're relying ONLY on hitting all three Narcomoebas or some ridiculous combination of Bridge from Below and Cabal Therapy.

[DJ Catchem]

Right on, then.  I can see that being the case.  I'll have to test it out. 

How are the Coliseums? 

Perhaps more importantly, what does your sideboard plan look like?  In particular, how do you plan on dealing with Leyline Of The Void?

--->DJ 

[desolutionist]

How are the Coliseums?

They're really great since you're only using two of the three blue mana on Deep Analysis, but they're far less functional than Deep Analysis as they require some way to generate threshold before they can be used.  (it will force you into turn 2 unless you have Deep Anal or Street Wraith)

Perhaps more importantly, what does your sideboard plan look like?  In particular, how do you plan on dealing with Leyline Of The Void?

The only solution to Leyline is to dedicate most of the sideboard toward answering it.  If it is prevalent enough in this format, Chain of Vapor sides in nicely because the deck already has access to blue through Cephalid Coliseum.  Dryad Arbor could be sided in for both a green source for Emerald Charm and a sacrifical creature for Dread Return.  Chalice of the Void could be necesssary for Tormod's Crypt.  I don't think the sideboard will extend much beyond the obvious.

EDIT - Do I side out Serum Powder post-board due to the deck becoming less redundant?

[Gekoratel]

Right now Leyline is extremely popular due to all the hype around Flash but if that deck becomes banned post-FS then I'd assume that Leyline would go back to a niche card that very few decks would run.

EDIT: Didn't realize that this was a MODO thread and thought it was about standard Legacy, I have no idea how popular Leyline is on modo or what the classic meta looks like.

[Zherbus]

I've seen quite a bit of Leyline.

[DJ Catchem]

Leyline was big several months back, and pretty much buried Dragon and took the wind out of the original Hulk decks.  It splashed damage on a few other decks to a lesser extent...Ichorid, Tog, and some Salvagers, but none as bad as Dragon.  Once Storm combo got bigger, the need for Leyline dropped off quite a bit, but even as recent as the last ES was still popping up in sideboards.

With the onset of Hulk Flash, I would imagine Leyline will be in every sideboard.  Literally.

--->DJ

[BreathWeapon]

Obsessive Search is just as good as Street Wraith and better than the Baubles at generating Dredge, and Arrogant Wurm and Reckless Wurm are an interesting MD/SB "Man Plan" along with Acorn Harvest for additional Dread Return fuel.

Wurm not Wyrm
Reckless not Wreckless
-Matt

[Ambitious]

I have tested this deck a bit, and I've found three things.  The first thing I've found is that Ichorid is really good.  You will from time to time not win immediately after you go off due to, say, not hitting any narcomoebas.  When that happens, ichorid is great for a win next turn.

The other thing I've found is that this deck is horribly inconsistent.  By that, I mean that it rarely draws its LEDs, even with 4x Serum Powder.  When it does draw LEDs, it often doesn't get enough dredgers or drawers.  If there is any way to make it more consistent, it would, I believe, be very good.

The third is that this deck is not very good at dealing with disruption, or at least my version is not.  (My version has a sideboard of 3x Vampiric Tutor, 2x Chain of Vapor, 2x Echoing Truth, 4x Watery Grave, 2x Breeding Pool, and 2x Pithing Needle.)  By the time I have dealt with my opponent's disruption, they often have enough counterspells to stop me from going off.