TheManaDrain.com
October 10, 2025, 09:14:28 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Tarmogoyf's P/t in Graveyard  (Read 10376 times)
MadManiac21
Basic User
**
Posts: 338



View Profile Email
« on: August 22, 2007, 09:07:00 pm »

Tarmogoyf is in your graveyard along with a land and an instant. Your opponent has no cards in their graveyard. Is it an 0/1 or a 3/4?
Logged

Team Hadley: ALL YOUR MOX ARE BELONG TO US
Red Sox: 2004 AND 2007 World Series Champs!
I pray to Tom Brady.
Clariax
Global Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 428


Clariax
View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2007, 12:04:31 am »

Tarmogoyf is a 3/4.  Tarmogoyf's ability is a characteristic-defining ability, so it applies in all zones.

Quote
405.2. Some objects have intrinsic static abilities that define the object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness. These abilities are characteristic-defining abilities, and they function in all zones. Abilities of an object that affect the characteristics of another object are not characteristic-defining abilities. Neither are abilities that an object grants to itself, or abilities that set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met. See rule 201, "Characteristics," and rule 418.5a.
Logged

Aaron Cutler
DCI L2
Cleveland, Ohio
MadManiac21
Basic User
**
Posts: 338



View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 12:39:45 am »

Thanks!
Logged

Team Hadley: ALL YOUR MOX ARE BELONG TO US
Red Sox: 2004 AND 2007 World Series Champs!
I pray to Tom Brady.
LotusHead
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 2785


Team Vacaville


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2007, 12:46:36 am »

Tarmogoyf is a 3/4.  Tarmogoyf's ability is a characteristic-defining ability, so it applies in all zones.

Quote
405.2. Some objects have intrinsic static abilities that define the object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness. These abilities are characteristic-defining abilities, and they function in all zones. Abilities of an object that affect the characteristics of another object are not characteristic-defining abilities. Neither are abilities that an object grants to itself, or abilities that set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met. See rule 201, "Characteristics," and rule 418.5a.

Does this matter at the moment? Given the current cardpool? (and yes, I would never have assumed that Tarmogoyf was 3/4 in the grave...)
Logged

LordHomerCat
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1397

Lord+Homer+Cat
View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2007, 01:19:19 am »

What about in the RFG Zone?  Like, lets say there is a land, an instant, and a Tarmogoyf in my yard, and nothing in my opponents.  I play Sutured Ghoul, and choose to remove Tarmogoyf from the game.  Is my Ghoul a 2/3 or a 0/0 ?  Or is it 3/4 since that is what Goyf was just before he changed zones?
Logged

Team Meandeck

Team Serious

Quote from: spider
LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
Clariax
Global Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 428


Clariax
View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2007, 05:21:31 am »

Does this matter at the moment? Given the current cardpool? (and yes, I would never have assumed that Tarmogoyf was 3/4 in the grave...)

It does matter.  A Sutured Ghoul removing a Tarmogoyf will use Tarmogoyf's p/t as it exists in the RFG zone.  What card types are in the graveyard determines whether you may search for a Tarmogoyf with Imperial Recruiter.
Logged

Aaron Cutler
DCI L2
Cleveland, Ohio
Mr. Nightmare
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 537


Paper Tiger


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2007, 10:50:46 am »

Does this matter at the moment? Given the current cardpool? (and yes, I would never have assumed that Tarmogoyf was 3/4 in the grave...)

It does matter.  A Sutured Ghoul removing a Tarmogoyf will use Tarmogoyf's p/t as it exists in the RFG zone.  What card types are in the graveyard determines whether you may search for a Tarmogoyf with Imperial Recruiter.
Has there been an official statement regarding this yet?  I know there is still some disagreement on whether the Sutured Ghoul checks only at the time of removal, or if it checks constantly.  Basically, the argument was whether it works like it did in the Judgement FAQ - which is the way Dracoplasm works with a very similar effect - or if it works the way judges seem to be ruling, that it continuously checks.  This would mean that a single Goyf could be Pull From Eternitied to kill the Ghoul if it's the only card removed to it.  Last I knew, it was working its way up the chain for an OR.  Have you heard anything?
Logged
Anusien
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 3669


Anusien
View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2007, 05:03:51 pm »

Edit: Scrubbed for tone and because Clariax answered more fully.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 12:21:57 am by Anusien » Logged

Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator

Quote from: H.L. Mencken
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
Clariax
Global Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 428


Clariax
View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2007, 09:19:39 pm »

Has there been an official statement regarding this yet?  I know there is still some disagreement on whether the Sutured Ghoul checks only at the time of removal, or if it checks constantly.  Basically, the argument was whether it works like it did in the Judgement FAQ - which is the way Dracoplasm works with a very similar effect - or if it works the way judges seem to be ruling, that it continuously checks.  This would mean that a single Goyf could be Pull From Eternitied to kill the Ghoul if it's the only card removed to it.  Last I knew, it was working its way up the chain for an OR.  Have you heard anything?

This is how Sutured Ghoul works, as Offical as it gets.  The information from the Judgement FAQ is not correct.  For whatever reason WotC does not update old FAQs when rules change, so over time they may become obsolete.  (The Ice Age FAQ speaks of making a counterspell target itself, the Saviors FAQ says that Evermind can't be played under any circumstances).

Dracoplasm, on the other hand, is a bit messy.  As worded it doesn't exactly "work."  This will be fixed with the next oracle update.  Dracoplasm does have it's p/t locked in when it comes into play, and that functionality will likely be maintained in it's new wording.

As for "working it's way up the chain," I can tell you that I myself am pretty high up on that chain.  I do make mistakes, sure, and will be certain to correct and acknowledge those mistakes as soon as I become aware of them.  Also I will acknowledge it in the thread if for some reason I'm waiting on some other source for an answer (search through previous posts I've made and you can see where I've done that).  But absent either of those, you may rest assured that my answers, when it comes to rules, are Official.
Logged

Aaron Cutler
DCI L2
Cleveland, Ohio
Wildfire111
Basic User
**
Posts: 9


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 12:15:08 am »

Just to get this straight - consider this gamestate.
Me - Sutured Ghoul which has 4x 6/7 Tarmogoyfs removed to him attacking and a full graveyard.
Him - empty graveyard and a Tormod's Crypt
If he crypts, do my Tarmogoys turn into 1/2s in the RFG zone making my ghoul a 4/8 weenie instead of a 24/28 monster? or do they become 1/2s in the RFG zone and my ghoul stays a monster because his P/T was set when he came into play?
Logged
Clariax
Global Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 428


Clariax
View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 02:23:25 am »

Sutured Ghoul's p/t is constantly checking.  In the scenario given, it becomes a 4/8.

Just to get this straight - consider this gamestate.
Me - Sutured Ghoul which has 4x 6/7 Tarmogoyfs removed to him attacking and a full graveyard.
Him - empty graveyard and a Tormod's Crypt
If he crypts, do my Tarmogoys turn into 1/2s in the RFG zone making my ghoul a 4/8 weenie instead of a 24/28 monster? or do they become 1/2s in the RFG zone and my ghoul stays a monster because his P/T was set when he came into play?
Logged

Aaron Cutler
DCI L2
Cleveland, Ohio
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.034 seconds with 18 queries.