Changing to real power

[NodFreak]

Hi there,

like many people i started to play vintage with proxies, adquiring cards with a moderated prices, like Force of Will, Dual lands, Fecthing lands, tutors, and others, but no P9's.

now, with the vintage comunity in my country going stronger, i feel motivated to start saving for them (the P9), so i can say bye bye to proxies once and for all, thats why i got this new job, to be able to buy them with my own money.

So, the question is this, wich P9 should i get first?... im currently playing a Gro-A-Tog deck, so im kinda inclined for an Ancestral Recall and a Time Walk instead of a Black lotus as my first (and second) P9 piece. What do you people think?... here i got some "are you crazy?, go Black lotus", or "black lotus is god" or something like that, but after some testing i see myself using more the Ancestral Recall (i love merchant scroll...) and the Time Walk...

The second question is: wich P9 should i get after? (if i go with the Ancestral Recall and Time Walk)... should i go with Black lotus or with 2 mox (sapphire and jet)... ?

btw, im going to buy Unlimited Power... (so i can adquire them faster)

Thanx.

[Dante]

Welcome aboard!  FYI, your topic was moved because the Vintage Open Forum is for discussing decks, card use, metagame items, etc.  This is more of a community question.

Dante

[orgcandman]

the reason to go for lotus is that it fits everywhere. If you don't go for lotus, get sapphire and jet. Moxen are much more universally used than the blue power.

However, Ancestral is definitely not a bad choice. Actually, any power is really good, so if you find a really good deal, you might as well jump on it.

-Aaron

[zeus-online]

I'd go:

Lotus
Ancestral
Sapphire
Jet
Ruby
Time walk
Emerald
Pearl
Twister (If you want to...)

Or you could just do like me and get whatever is cheap at the moment That's how i got my power cards anyway.

/Zeus

[Nefarias]

If where you play allows proxies (which clearly it does), I don't think it really matters which order you get them in. I'd just go for whatever you can get the best deal on.

If you couldn't use proxies, then I'd think you'd concern yourself more with the order you get them in, because each time you got one it'd be making your deck incrementally better, so you'd want the ones that would make the biggest impact first. If that were the case, I think your initial plan of getting both Ancestral and Time Walk over Lotus would makes  sense, at least if you plan on continuing to play GAT.

[NodFreak]

thanx guys.

im still thinking about the order, but its clearly between lotus and ancestral recall/walk... im planning to keep playing Gro-A-Tog for the time being....

we used to play more with proxies because they (the tourneys) wherent sanctioned, but now, with more vintage stuff going around, there are more sanctioned events wich doesnt let us play with proxies than the kind we used to play... thats why i tought about the AR/Walk combination, because they have more impact in the G-A-T deck and the order (for now) does have an impact in the performance of the deck. (and i got some sweet deals for them  )

maybe if i can sell some of my stuff i would be able to buy all the 3 at the same time.

i really apreciate your opinions guys! keep 'em coming!

i also have other question.... i readed in this page about false power (beta ones) and how to identify them, so im kinda worried... im buying them Unlimited, so im asking if they are more secure to buy than Beta in this aspect... (off course im going to be careful no matter what, but still...)

[defector]

I got mine in the following order:

Mox Jet
Timetwister
Mox Pearl
Mox Emerald
Ancestral Recall
Mox Ruby
Black Llotus

I'll get the Time Walk and the Saphire over the next year or so. Since I could use proxies, i went for the best deals and used a lot of patience. That would be my advice.

defector

[Dante]

In terms of making your deck more powerful, Lotus and Ancestral are far and away the best looked at individually, especially Lotus.  If you look through tournament reports and look at all of the truly disgusting turn 1 and 2 plays that really put the game away, they almost always involve Lotus.  I don't think there's a card that has a higher correlation between seeing it in your opening 7 and winning the game than Black Lotus.  With Merchant Scroll unrestricted decks running around, it makes Ancestral the 2nd best choice above Time Walk or a Mox.

If I were buying, I would go like this

Lotus
Ancestral
Sapphire
Jet
the rest of the mox+time walk.  The order of the Moxes should be Ruby, Pearl, Emerald and mix in Timewalk wherever.
TimeTwister

[NodFreak]

mmmm, lots of feedback supporting the Lotus... well, im convinced for now, so i will save to buy lotus 1st and ancestral in 2nd... at least i have enought right now for an ancestral, so i "just" have to save for the lotus... ... ...

so, now that im clear with those 2, the mox should be next? (sapphire and jet)... and after that im going time walk i think... i dont know, there is something appealing in that card in specific that i cant describe... the little "time people" maybe?...

well, so there it is... for now...

i have some more questions:

- at this moment im kinda worried about the autenticity of the cards, i have made some research and i saw thats more likely to get a false beta power than an unlimited one... may i ask why?... (profit wise for part of the falsificator only or there is another reason?)

- Its ebay a good place to buy? (from top sellers, there is one you people recomend over the rest?)

- i saw some PSA power or something like that, why they are so overpriced? (in comparison to the normal offers)

thanx to all of you guys!

[Nefarias]

PSA is a company that puts official condition grades on cards. Since power is old and from when the a lot of people didn't take condition of their cards seriously, it's tough to find any in really good shape. PSA certifies the fact that it's in the condition stated (on a 1-10 scale), so buyers know for sure that the card is real and in the condition stated. Some collectors are really into it. Note also that you can't play with a PSA graded card, because they seal it in a plastic case to preserve the integrity of their rating.

EBay's okay, but you just have to be careful. Top Sellers should be fine, but you may want to do a Search on this site for "eBay" or something like that...every now and again there's a thread about scams and such, including the ones stickied at the top of this board. I don't really use EBay much, so someone else could probably give you more advice here.

One reason why Beta is more popular for fakes is because of the existence of Collector's Edition and making fakes from rebacks and such. I think the print quality and card stock was also a bit easier to duplicate, but again, I'm no expert and someone on here probably knows more. There is also a sticky for this.

[NodFreak]

thanx!, im going to ask in that topic about Unlimited power just in case.

i have another question... can someone in a non-proxy tournament play with a proxied card they have for real?... i dont know if im making myself clear... i will try to elaborate... if i know that in some local place where a tourney its going to be held people tend to be rude at the time of shuffling your deck, can i show my valuable cards (in case of P9's for example) and then put some proxies instead of the real one in my deck? (keeping the real ones near to show them if its needed)... at the moment i never had to do somethink like that... but i dont apreciate the idea of paying 1200 bucks for a lotus and have someone damage it because the opponent its being an a**, or if i cant... there are other options? (near where im am there are some jacka**es like that, or some kid that just doesnt care how he treats the cards... his or others)

[LordHomerCat]

In sanctioned events, if you don't trust the opponent, you can call a judge to shuffle for them.  However, a regular sanctioned event generally won't let you proxy like that, although it is mostly at the discretion of the head judge.

[Scott_Limoges]

I'll disagree with the majority.  If you plan on playing GAT, Ancestral is the best peice by far...as you know.  Lotus is really over-hyped in that deck - I perfer fastbond over lotus.  Also, I will almost always keep a hand with ancestral and garbage, but would never keep a hand with lotus and garbage.  It's really an easy call for me and you should know that before you make this decision.

[LordHomerCat]

Agreed, Lotus in the deck is good but not the best.  Ancestral is incredibly iimportant, and much better than Lotus there.

[zeus-online]

That may be so, but lotus is a must in any vintage deck (Except ichorid which seems to be a general exception to everything)
...And lotus is absolutely nutz, it's easily the best magic card ever printed. (With ancestral right behind it )

/Zeus

[Raibar]

As some people have previously stated, Ancestral and Walk are by far the best choice for your deck, they give you more cards (obv) and also a way to finish a game when you find a Dryad or Tog when chaining gushes or from a yawg will.

[Yare]

I personally think Time Walk is one of those cards that you can get away with cutting here and there if you're crunched for cash and have to decide what you're gonna buy.  In tog though, it probably is a little more essential.  For general use though, there are better choices before Walk (Lotus, Ancestral, Sapphire, Jet).