Sui Black - Let's try this again....

[LSD/Cruise]

Glad to see you're going to try mixing things up a bit.  Like I said before, I cut the 4th Hippie, and in one tournament I still had the potential for 3 or so first turn Hippies, but if given the chance I would rather Duress/hym or Confidant.

It's nice to make the deck different. Who knows? Mixing things up can really cause your opponent to make play mistakes against you. 

I also love mind twist, although I really do fear it getting MisD'ed.  Right now I am using two.

Mind Twist is great midgame. When decks are recovering from Disruption being thrown at them, it's nice to have Mind Twist be there for you to make them try and recover again. Besides, I dont think I really have a hand when playing this deck, so getting a Mind Twist thrown back at me isnt much of a problem.

I really like the way your deck is shaping out, although I would never use Leylines MD.  Although I've been thinking Stax might make an appearance soon to try and dethrone GAT, so it could be more useful if more Welders show up.  Who knows.

Stax also has a decent game against Flash and GAT. It'll probably make Leyline tons better to play. I wasnt sold on it very much either, and would much rather favor MDed Extirpates, but after playing them, I felt that I needed a strong weapon against Flash and Ichorid.

My last suggestion would be that if you play in an aggro heavy environment, Serra Avenger I believe (ww for a 3/3 flying vigilance) or Exalted Angel might wanna sneak into the SB.  Again, you need to test this though, and good work on the direction the deck is going.

I'm testing 2 Exalted Angels in the board right now actually. I might cut an Angel for Tombstalker though. I would like other options for this slot though. Serra Avenger might work, since you have no intentions for dropping her down early.

[TopSecret]

If you are looking for creatures to sideboard in against other creature decks,
Preacher might be a good option.
He's more like Old Man of the Sea than a big beater, though.

Also, since you're using Rituals,
something like Phyrexian Scuta, Juzzam Djinn, or Plague Sliver might be good.
I'd like to suggest Shambling Swarm, too, because it was sick in Standard.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

although I would never use Leylines MD.  Although I've been thinking Stax might make an appearance soon to try and dethrone GAT, so it could be more useful if more Welders show up.  Who knows.

 A lot of people consider stax dead in the current meta, even though I think it is strong. The more competitive stax lists I've seen run only 2 welders due to the large amount grve hate, main decking 4 themselves. I believe that given the current meta, and considering the example of stax, leylines is an amazing main deck card. Turning things like ichorid and flash into very favorable match ups for you while destroying crucible (which hurts a lot of sui variants game plans), completely neutralizing welder, reducing the effectiveness of tog ,and providing the only possible protection you can get from a Will deck going broken turn one when your on the draw. Type one is a format in which there is very little difference between in game zones, hand/grave/library/in play. they're all a tap or a spell away from hopping form one zone to the next, especially the grave. considering this, some of the best/most broken cards in the format gitfs,flash, and will either put things into the grave or pull things out. Why deny yourself a card that completely hoses an extremely active game zone that you can easily cast turn two, if not turn zero for free and have it be uncounterable? Flash is only seeing more play unless they restrict scroll or something.

[madmanmike25]

Leyline IS an amazing card.  If you are running 4 Dark Rituals then there is no excuse in not running 4 Leylines.

Chains will only be viable if you see TONS of GAT, as it will cripple Gush and Brainstorm. 

Personally I couldn't see a deck of this type without 4 copies of Wasteland, but that's just me(and a few others).

Since it really isn't SuiBlack, can you explain why you feel White is a better choice over Blue?  I would use black creatures and blue spells(FoW).  Not trying to get off-topic, I'm just curious.

If it was a Sui Black deck, I would say that I think Nantuko's are great and have the potential to take out Grunts.  Not to mention that Dark Ritual becomes a Giant Growth

Hate it, but here is how I would build Sui Black

15
4 Confidants
4 Nantuko's
4 fat bodies(Gathan Raiders, Juzam, Negator, etc.)
3 Yixlid Jailer

20
4 Duress
4 Leyline
4 Chalice
3 Powder Keg(just use it wisely)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
3 Diabolic Edict

25
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
3 Mire
3 Delta
7 Swamps
1 Lotus
1 Jet
1 Petal

.....or something similar.



Good luck.

[LSD/Cruise]

Leyline IS an amazing card.  If you are running 4 Dark Rituals then there is no excuse in not running 4 Leylines.

I'm thinking of Unmask in the deck so I can pitch something to Unmask, like dead Leylines and Rituals.

Chains will only be viable if you see TONS of GAT, as it will cripple Gush and Brainstorm. 

Agreed.

Personally I couldn't see a deck of this type without 4 copies of Wasteland, but that's just me(and a few others).

I didnt agree with 3 Wastelands and 1 Strip Mine in Fish and SS, but I learned why when playing them.

Since it really isn't SuiBlack, can you explain why you feel White is a better choice over Blue?  I would use black creatures and blue spells(FoW).  Not trying to get off-topic, I'm just curious.

Board Control, and Silver Bullets. If I were to play Blue instead, I might build an SS with more board control.

If it was a Sui Black deck, I would say that I think Nantuko's are great and have the potential to take out Grunts.  Not to mention that Dark Ritual becomes a Giant Growth

Jotun Grunt is a threat as well as utility. With the rise of Goyfs, I think Grunts can bash them down in the red zone.

Hate it, but here is how I would build Sui Black
[decklist]

I should test Yilix Jailers. I really should be more open minded.

Good luck.

Thank you, I really need as many opinions as possible.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@madmanmike25
First off thanks for backing me up on the kegs, leylines, -chains, and shades.
In response to your question why white over blue, I think its because sui black generally has problems when things hit the board (i.e. why keg is superior to null rod and chailce). You could cast FOW to deal with it, but your usually emptying you hand fairly fast for the discard and threats you'd have push out. Even if you cast FOW its 2 cards gone. Usually the problem piece for sui black is a really early chalice or a creature, combo based decks usually don't deal well with all duress and hymn sui is packing. That in mind, wouldn't it be easier to splash a bit of white and cast STP for  instead of losing a card to FOW and cutting the 14-18 (number debatable) cards for blue ones to support it? Plus if you want I think its funny to replace a few fatties with mind censor and cut a wasteland for a ghost quarters. thats why the sauce is  instead of 

[racoooon!]

// Creatures 13
4 Dark Confidant
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Jotun Grunt

from my experience as a sui black player i can tell you you should raise the creature count to 16/18. the thing about sui is that you need to win the game by turn 5 or else you're gonna be screwed. you don't have cursed scroll, no skeletal scrying, not even necro, so what you gonna do when the deck eventually runs out of gas? (you have no drawing engine and 90% of the current decks have one) you need at least 8 big creatures (with evasion pref) who can win the game in 3  or 4 turns, or cheap efectivce creatures who can be hatred targets. negator is a staple card, and probably my favorite creature ever, but thats a metagame choice.  i would drop the W part and go mono black, replacing the grunts for negators, the mindcensor for wretchs (wich will allow you to remove leyline of the void form the maindeck).

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

i agree with removing W. thats a different deck all together. the leylines are needed in the current meta, the problem isn't cards being in the grave yard which wretch would prevent, the problem is cards being sent there, as well as having a turn 0 uncounterable effect. true you do not get the 2/2 out of it, but flash has been present in every meta I've heard presently, as well as gat, which can respond to wretch with tog. leyine is just a very good meta game cal right now.

As far as hatred goes, I personally love the card, but I can rarely create the circumstance to cast it. As you said the deck has a very week draw engine if any. Your rits are usually used to destroy the opponents hand and buy you an extended clock. Assuming you top deck a land every turn (which isn't to good), your on turn 4. You seem to need to top deck a rit with a poor draw engine. This is not a good plan. 4 swings with negator (your specified game clock) does it an its own(which makes them dead by the time you can cast hatred), and nantuko shade give you a lot of late game leeway.

[Guli]

4x Leyline is good in sui black right now and will most likely stay that way for a long time. You need free effective answers to the meta
I would also play 4x chalice for the same reason. I don't think unmask is that good your paying a way too high price for its effect.

Obvious card choices at this moment

4x dark confidant
4x chalice of the void
4x leyline of the void
4x duress

With leyline you might say wretch is not needed anymore. I share that feeling. However you don't always get leyline in opening hand and clearly 4 anti grave is NOT enough right now. It can easily be removed with some bounce. So i think it is wise to add 3 wretch and 3 extirpate aswell just to raise the pressure and have more fighting chances. extirpate counters top deck tutors and takes a look at enemy deck.

x3 Withered Wretch
x3 Extirpate

lotus/rituals/jet/petal are ofcourse the acceleration that makes sui black somewhat viable.

Necro is good but i don't find it as strong as in grim long or something. Necro means Game Over next turn in vintage. I can't see how sui black is going to do that.Sometime it works out nicely but a lot of times it costs you the game aswell. That is not what necro is about.

With cards like leyline and chalice you can somewhat take a breath imo. You can easily play a long game i don't see why not. You don't have direct counters but you have nice control cards. And sui black can have a draw engine aswell why not. Night whisper and Skeletals. And if you dont want to go that way then play chains to stop opposing draws.

I would not use mind twist. If you want a good twist you want at least 4 mana. This means 3+ cards in opponent hand. Chances are high you will never get a decent chance to cast this situational card. When succesful i agree it wins games but that does not happen consistently. I rather use hymns. They are cheaper and they come early wich is important.

Next to confi and wretch what creatures to use? These days im experimenting a lot with dreadnought. Now that is a clock. 2 turns. So its ok if comes a bti later on. Once you have crippled you cast a mask and dread and quickly seal up your win. With mask you can also use other tricks with black morph creatures. Feel free to search im not gonna. But it sounds interesting to me. I can understand if some of you would say filling 8 slots up is too much.

sui black - void

1 black lotus
4 dark ritual
1 lotus petal
1 mox jet
6 swamp
3 polluted delta
2 bloodstained mire
1 strip mine
3 wasteland

4 duress
4 hymn to tourach
4 leyline of the void
4 chalice of the void
3 extirpate
1 demonic constulation

4 dark confidant
3 withered wretch

4 phyrexian dreadnought
3 Skinthinner
4 illusionary mask

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Chalice of the void over powder keg is a huge topic for debate for sui black builds.

A couple things in this deck work against each other. Synergy is important.
I'm not sure why your running withered wretch. If your running 4x leyline of the void your paying  for a 2/2 vanilla  creature I'd recommend Sarcomancy or carnophage if your playing cabal therapy.
Also, with 4x chalice of the void, skin thinner for morph is countered reducing it to an 2/1 for  . At this point you might as well pay (being a monoblack deck) for the nantuko shade.

Vintage is a cut throat format, you need the most optimal list possible to compete with deck going broken as soon as possible to win at any costs.

[wierdmtg13]

in theory exalted angel seems great. its and 8 life swing per turn.  but the fact of the matter is u spend 2 turns getting it into play or need 6 mana.  in a deck like this u want to be disrupting and smashing face at the same time. setting ur self up with 2 turns for 4 extra life isnt the greatest against a lot of the aggro decks.  Avenger on the other hand seems insanely good.  it keeps attacking while keeping at least part of the opposing armies at bay and it has evasion.

u may also want some additional late game card drawing b/c u tend to run out of gas quickly.  Bob is good but you probably want at least 2 more sources of card draw

[Guli]

about chalice, what i know is Chalice of the Void only triggers on spells being played

if u get the creature in play with mask and u turn it up does chalice counter it?

[LSD/Cruise]

All this talk about a more aggressive list. I made one just now, and I think it's pretty damn good.


// Lands 26
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
14 Swamp


// Creatures 15
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Specter


// Spells 19
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Powder Keg

[racoooon!]

Today I got smashed by hulk flash, lost five games on turn 1, so I now I understand the urgent thoughts of maindecking leyline of the void. I should mention I was not playing sui black, but I strongly believe we can built a decent version o this deck that can somehow deal with Hulk, GAT, and Stax.

Here’s a decklist from the top of my head that I would like to hear some opinions and/or criticism


    4 Phyrexian Negator
    4 Flesh Reaver
    4 Nantuko Shade
    4 Juzam Djinn (?)

    4 Leyline of the Void
    4 Serum Powder
    4 Duress
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1 Demonic Tutor

    5 Swamp
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Bloodstained Mire

Serum Powder: I will start with the most bizarre card choice ever. Yes, you read that right, this is a beatdown deck that maindecks serum powder. The thing is we really need a turn 0 leyline of the void to stop hulk, I mean, that’s the fastest deck I’ve ever seen, everyone is playing it so it’s just to big to be ignored. Void it’s the only way to deal with the raw speed of it, and it’s effective via disruption (duress, therapy, hymn) to allow you 3 or 4 turns, enough time to win. Serum powder it’s like running 8 leylines, since when you remove your hand from the game you increase the changes of drawing another serum or leyline. Trust me it just works. This deck it’s optimized to grant you a leyline in play in every game giving you the upper hand against the current meta (GAT, Hulk, Stax).

Cabal Therapy: Even tho this card it’s not as abusive as in, let’s say, extended, it can remove all the leyline hate you can find. Not to mention the synergy it has with negator and flesh reaver.

Negator: This is a card that has no middle term. Or it’s a really good card or an incredible awful card. But now very few decks can really screw it so I would say the meta is favourable for negator. Plus it has evasion.
Flesh Reaver: I know many people hate this creature but like I said before we need to pack buff creatures to get our opponent on a turn 3 clock (at least). This is a cheap and buff creature so I see no problem with it.

Juzam: If anyone know a better creature, a card that’s equally cheap and big let me know. I’m not a great fan of Juzam but it was him or War Beast or Su-Chi.

CONCERNING OTHER CARDS POSTED IN YOUR DECKLISTS

Chalice: Why chalice in sui? I’ve never understand that concept. I mean, null rod made sense, but chalice? Someone said it was a free antidote to Flash. But why bother, it just shuts down part of the deck (PoN and SP) which its redundant if you have leyline in play.

Going Mask/Naugth: that’s bringing to sui black all the hate Mask has.

Powder Keg: I like it. But I never like it in sui black. Running Keg it’s not being very suicidal. But if someone gimmes a good reason I might reconsider.

Dark Confinant: Risky with Flesh Reaver. I rather have a big creature in play than skinny DC.

[LSD/Cruise]

here's a deck designed to beat GAT, and Hulk... but not Stax.


// Mana 25
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Strip Mine
4 Dark Ritual
3 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Badlands
5 Swamp


// Creatures 13
3 Phyrexian Negator
3 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade


// Spells 22
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Extirpate
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Dystopia
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Duress
4 Unmask

 
In short, I think the card you're lacking against GAT is Dystopia.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Ok, this just keeps coming up and I've only briefly addressed it in passing. But it just refuses to go away. I believe unmask has no place in sui black main deck. Your draw engine is poor,there for you cards in hand mean more than in other decks. In previous vintage the old rit duress hymn play was a favorite. In modern vintage this play is seen as an equal exchange of 3 cards for 3 cards. this is a major reason why the deck fell out of favor. Unmask is a turn 1 play that exchanges 2 cards for one. Your cards are more valuable to you then they are to deck with much superior draw engines (thats every other deck you'll come across). Your taking away your momentum (making less plays), and there only getting farther a head of you every turn. modern vintage is just to fast to main deck it, i'm not even sure if it's worth the SB

Also, a play I think everyone is over looking, powder keg set to 1. Lets see flash try to win through that. I'd play 4x keg over 4x chalice in sui black any day, and doing both just seems redundant. Keg is more skill intensive, but it takes care of everything chalice does, EXCEPT ITS MORE VERSATILE.

I'd also like to ask what people thought about SB contagion. Its a turn 0 answer to flash. g2 there likely to play fast with little counter (or hopefully no) counter back up because your playing sui black. Its always funny to watch a deck loose to pacts because you've done barely anything. Of course, this is assuming the sliver variant is as dominant everywhere else as it is here.

[wierdmtg13]

i played unmask for a long time in my BW build over the past year.  It is tru that it just ruins ur card advantage.  It was golden against pitch long but the card disadvantage in this deck is too much especially with the lack of card draw engines.

contagion seems really good since it doesnt cost any mana as a reactive spell to flash.

dystopia is an absolute house against GAT and OATH.  Ive tested it and its amazing.  It as worst a 1 for 1 and u dont even need to target the permanent (say SSS).  Or you can keep it around for a turn or 2 and wreck their board position.  it doesnt win you the game but it def keeps u in it and prevents them from winning which is what the deck is geared to do.

[BeatDominator]

I tried this morning to put together what i'd play if i were to play a mono  build of this, i came up with:

// Lands
        7 Swamp
        4 Bloodstained Mire
        1 Strip Mine
        4 Wasteland
        1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// Creatures
        3 Phyrexian Negator
        4 Dark Confidant
        2 Nantuko Shade
// Enchantments
        3 Chains of Mephistopheles
// Spells
        1 Diabolic Edict
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        4 Dark Ritual
        1 Demonic Tutor
        4 Duress
        1 Imperial Seal
        4 Sinkhole
        4 Unmask
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Artifacts
        3 Chalice of the Void
        1 Lotus Petal
        2 Powder Keg
        2 Sensei's Divining Top
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Jet

// Sideboard
SB:  1 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB:  1 Chalice of the Void
SB:  1 Darkblast
SB:  2 Diabolic Edict
SB:  4 Engineered Plague
SB:  2 Powder Keg
SB:  4 Leyline of the Void

I really like the top + confidant draw engine.  And i know i really liked having 8 duress effects in the deck over 4 duress 4 hymns.  With all the mis-d's running around these days i REALLY prefer unmask.  (not nearly as bad a thing to have it misdirected, you can always fail to find in your hand.)

i really like the land denial of the wastes + sinks, gives a solid disruption base for your other things to have a chance to stall your opponent more effectively.  Chalice + chains can be brutal when used correctly.

And of course the 'tuko can end a game pretty quickly if he has to. 


The sideboard i'm still working on.  4 leylines is a given in today's day and age it seems, also with dark rituals you have a better chance of a turn 1 leyline than most decks.  I've liked a darkblast against fishy stuff for a while now, reusable spot removal is fantastic in this deck. 

The engineered plague is my solution to the insta flash kill of the slivers thing.  I know its an enchant, but its not like a turn 0 contagion is going to save you, you still die in another turn when he swings again.

[madmanmike25]

I believe unmask has no place in sui black main deck.

I would agree here as well.  Not only does it rape your hand, it ups the cc of your cards meaning Confidant could kill you even faster.  SB however, is a different story.

In previous vintage the old rit duress hymn play was a favorite.

I remember when this used to win you the game.  Hymn was my favorite land destruction card.

RE: Keg vs. Chalice

Why Choose?  Play with both.  Chalice is a solid card in Vintage.  Casting Duress and setting Chalice @ 0 on turn 1 is a solid play.  Chalice @ 1(although it knocks out Duress/Rit) is also a solid play if needed.  And you are right, Keg @ 1 is a great answer to slivers and not to mention; Keg @ 2 > Dryads.  I think Keg is a great MD slot due to it's versatility.

RE: Withered Wretch AND Leyline.
The bottom line is you don't always see Leyline, and it might be too late by the time you have enough mana to tutor for it and cast it.  I could possibly see 2 Wretch/Yixlids to complement the Leylines.  Yixlid is 'faster' vs Ichorid while Wretch makes Jotun Grunt die sooner and stops Welder Shenanigans.

Serum Powder in Sui: 
I really don't think it belongs MD.  SB maybe to help you get that Leyline.  The deck is not fast/powerful enough to compensate for the dead draw of a Powder mid-game. 

I'm not crazy about a bunch of 1-of's in Sui and hoping to tutor for them.  Focus.  If you want an answer for every situation.....play a blue deck.  I think Kegs (and possibly Edicts) should be enough.

LSD/Cruise:  I like your "aggressive" list.  Is there a way to squeeze in DT?  You seem a bit undecided about using Fetchlands though, some lists have them and some don't.  Personally, I prefer them and if you do play enough(8 is too many) it does help thin out the swamps and gives it more of a 'Sui' feel.  How many swamps do you actually need in play, even with Nantuko?

@Beat Dominator's list
It seems all over the place.  You talk about Misdirection vs. Hymn and yet you want 4 Sinkholes?  I think Masknought and Sui are different decks.  If I were to build a Masknought deck, I would play with Hunted Horror and Powder Kegs since you might not even need the Illusionary Mask.  I do think that with the rise of Goblins and Slivers(Flash) that Engineered Plague is a tad better SB slot than Contagion.

Contagion on Heart Sliver and 1 Poision Sliver will leave you with 3 Poision Slivers attacking next turn.  Hopefully you have 1 creature out which would give you 4 poison counters after blocking.  That might be enough time to get another creature or Keg @ 1 though.  Correct me if I am mistaken here.  Since both Contagion and Plague are SB cards, what do Flash decks usually do;  keep in the Slivers or go the Kiki-Jiki route?  Answer that and you can find the better SB card.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@ list above
Negator:
Right now vintage is in a very different stat than it was before the b&r change. We are in a very argo heavy meta with tog dryad and magus of the moon. Negator is going to get blocked nor more then once, and your loose at least 2 permanents 90% of the time and get 3 damage through if your lucky. For those of use who are aware of the current meta, you'll notice that the icbm goblines list is on the rise as far as popularity. Between incinerators and sg commander gunning for your negator, its not looking too smart to have them in your lists the ringleader/matrons ensure the pilot can find them. I've seen it play through engineered plague (i find the additional SB of thrashing wampus extremely useful). This isn't the slaver and combo metas we're used to. If these decks have creatures, which they do (big ones), there larger and less important than the 1/1 welder speed bump negator you to roll over on rare occasions. Until we see a meta switch, negator is going to draw dead, very often.

this isn't a post because I don't like negator, on the contrary, I love running it (especially in a shop heavy meta) and look forward to a meta shift so I can play it again.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I would agree here as well.  Not only does it rape your hand, it ups the cc of your cards meaning Confidant could kill you even faster.  SB however, is a different story.

RE: Keg vs. Chalice

Why Choose?  Play with both.  Chalice is a solid card in Vintage.  Casting Duress and setting Chalice @ 0 on turn 1 is a solid play.  Chalice @ 1(although it knocks out Duress/Rit) is also a solid play if needed.  And you are right, Keg @ 1 is a great answer to slivers and not to mention; Keg @ 2 > Dryads.  I think Keg is a great MD slot due to it's versatility.

RE: Withered Wretch AND Leyline.
The bottom line is you don't always see Leyline, and it might be too late by the time you have enough mana to tutor for it and cast it.  I could possibly see 2 Wretch/Yixlids to complement the Leylines.  Yixlid is 'faster' vs Ichorid while Wretch makes Jotun Grunt die sooner and stops Welder Shenanigans.

Serum Powder in Sui: 
I really don't think it belongs MD.  SB maybe to help you get that Leyline.  The deck is not fast/powerful enough to compensate for the dead draw of a Powder mid-game. 

Contagion on Heart Sliver and 1 Poision Sliver will leave you with 3 Poision Slivers attacking next turn.  Hopefully you have 1 creature out which would give you 4 poison counters after blocking.  That might be enough time to get another creature or Keg @ 1 though.  Correct me if I am mistaken here.  Since both Contagion and Plague are SB cards, what do Flash decks usually do;  keep in the Slivers or go the Kiki-Jiki route?  Answer that and you can find the better SB card.

chalice:
I can definitely see where you'd like to run chalice and keg. it just seems with my testing that there is little point to chalice for anything but 0 turn 1, on the play, this just seems way too conditional to be a consistantly good card. Although I do admit, I could be using the card all wrong, in my build chalice at 1-2 Is not so good, but oath and stacks is in the decline. It the play is working for you, by all means I'd never argue with results.

wretch and LL
there is a ridiculous amount of yard hate in the meta, 4x leyline makes 4x t-crypt just look like a sick puppy some times. Your meta might be different then mine but there is barely any combo occurring with the amount of duress. no one is doing well with a long varient, and rarely you see a brain freeze chaining gush combo, which comfortably  doesn't need the yard. Like I mentioned, the problem into the current meta doesn't seem to be with cards being in the grave yard, it seems to be cards getting sent there, as for the ichorid match up, it is good, yes,  but you'd be amazed with what SB thrashing wampus does to that deck, complete shut down. I personally am not often worried about grunt, I go heavy on the nanatuko shade. Slaver is next to dead in the meta right now, so weldables aren't a huge deal . I'm actually going to do some testing on with the wretches though, the more I go over this in my head, I see your point, it just doesn't seem to be optimal though.

serum powder
see madmanmike25's post. i agree 100%

[Lordomor]

It's not sui black with no negator

This looks like generic white/black (control).

[LSD/Cruise]

It's not sui black with no negator

This looks like generic white/black (control).

It's hard to run Negators when the whole format is so creature oriented. If I were to run straight up Sui Black, it'd be some old lists from way back... then again, Ichorid may be better than standard Sui Black.

[Lordomor]

It's not sui black with no negator

This looks like generic white/black (control).

It's hard to run Negators when the whole format is so creature oriented. If I were to run straight up Sui Black, it'd be some old lists from way back... then again, Ichorid may be better than standard Sui Black.

I ran sui black/blue, first vintage tourney ever, and took 12th out of 40. I realise it's not top 8 or anything, but considering I haven't played much at all in months, competetively in years, I feel that's amazing. Ichorid I beat with a mono-green rareless urzablock deck Ichorid is ridiculously easy to shut down, and keep down. Sui black is impossible to stop because it's a real tool box deck that you can pretty much mod to fit whatever meta you want.

PS. First turn negator wins against any aggro, no questions asked. My metagame was half GAT, the rest pretty much blends of aggro and some combo decks for flavour.

[Largent]

And i know i really liked having 8 duress effects in the deck over 4 duress 4 hymns.  With all the mis-d's running around these days i REALLY prefer unmask.  (not nearly as bad a thing to have it misdirected, you can always fail to find in your hand.)

Cabal therapy seems like and obvious choice here, it helps keep the average CC of the deck down so you don't get rocked by bobs.