Super.. what?!?!

[Ufactor]

There are a number of competent minds working (together and independently) on SuperLong.  It's even made top8 in several medium-to-large tournaments, but I still don't get it!

It's slower and less broken than GrimLong* and also less consistient than GAT.  I hate to ask the n00b question, but: Why would anyone want to play this deck?






*This is not to say that GL is not awful during the current environment, only that it goldfishes like butter.. Raw power vs. Good metagaming is a whole other can of worms, that I really don't want to open right now

[ErkBek]

If my part 2 of the SL primer ever gets up that'd be able to answer your question. Here's the conclusion I came to"

Super Long has pretty good matchups across the metagame, though it comes at the cost of having a high variance in play. The deck can be very streaky at times which can be very frustrating in tournament play. Some games all of the cards are just there, other times it’s like you can’t find the right cards at all. Most games aren’t total blow outs by either side and require tight play to win by either player.
 
I don’t think this deck is better than GAT because GAT is so consistent, though Super Long is more powerful. The real reason to play this deck is it tends to have good matchups were GAT has bad matchups (ie: RG Aggro, Dawn of the Dead, Trinket Goyf, among others). If you feel GAT isn’t right for your metagame, Super Long might just be the perfect deck for it.

Oh, and also GL gets crushed by GAT.

[Ufactor]

There's also a "Part B" to this question, if someone would be kind enough to answer.  The default plan for the, now defunct, MeandeckGifts is T1) Land, Mox, Merchant Scroll into Ancestral Recall with counter backup, T2) Cast Ancestral, Brainstorm into mana and/or Merchant Scroll for Gifts Ungiven, T3) Cast Gifts for Yawgmoth's Will&Friends, T4) Combo off for the win.

Is there such a default plan with SuperLong?  Can someone spell it out for me in idiot-proof terms? Thanks!

[ErkBek]

There's also a "Part B" to this question, if someone would be kind enough to answer.  The default plan for the, now defunct, MeandeckGifts is T1) Land, Mox, Merchant Scroll into Ancestral Recall with counter backup, T2) Cast Ancestral, Brainstorm into mana and/or Merchant Scroll for Gifts Ungiven, T3) Cast Gifts for Yawgmoth's Will&Friends, T4) Combo off for the win.

Is there such a default plan with SuperLong?  Can someone spell it out for me in idiot-proof terms? Thanks!

Did you read part 1 of my SL primer? I don't think you can have it spelled out much more than what I do there.

[tomjoad]

The deck can be very streaky at times which can be very frustrating in tournament play. Some games all of the cards are just there, other times it’s like you can’t find the right cards at all. Most games aren’t total blow outs by either side and require tight play to win by either player.

Although I really like the deck, and I appreciate the work you and Meandeck have done on it, the quote illustrates why I don't think I can play Super Long any more. I just drew about 12 cards off a Bargain, resolved my Will, but I was short on mana AND on spell count to win. It was so frustrating that, even though I greatly enjoy the deck, I suspect that my skill level is more in line with playing GaT.

[ErkBek]

I suspect that my skill level is more in line with playing GaT.

That's what I've done too. At SCG Chicago, Jimmy McCarthy watched me mull into oblivion with storm, knocking me out of the tournament. All he had to say was "Becker, you should just play GAT."

I'm still working on building decks to consistantly beat GAT, it's difficult but doable.

[tomjoad]

I suspect that my skill level is more in line with playing GaT.

That's what I've done too. At SCG Chicago, Jimmy McCarthy watched me mull into oblivion with storm, knocking me out of the tournament. All he had to say was "Becker, you should just play GAT."

I'm still working on building decks to consistantly beat GAT, it's difficult but doable.

One thing for sure about Super Long is that (in my testing, at least) it beats the daylights out of GaT. I was up about 6-1 on one of my buddies (a much more experienced T1 player than I) before he just said "f--- it" and we moved on to Extended testing.

[SyntheticAngel]

I suspect that my skill level is more in line with playing GaT.

That's what I've done too. At SCG Chicago, Jimmy McCarthy watched me mull into oblivion with storm, knocking me out of the tournament. All he had to say was "Becker, you should just play GAT."

I'm still working on building decks to consistantly beat GAT, it's difficult but doable.

One thing for sure about Super Long is that (in my testing, at least) it beats the daylights out of GaT. I was up about 6-1 on one of my buddies (a much more experienced T1 player than I) before he just said "f--- it" and we moved on to Extended testing.

Super Long to me seems to have a perfect balance of brokeness. The multiple paths to winning either Tendrils or Colossus makes it versitile from my experience anyway. I would answer Will, but there was DSC kickin' me in the balls. I playtested GAT Vs. Super Long with Lou and there were games he would just roll me, but other games he would be a turn faster, and other games I would roll him.

[Ufactor]

There's also a "Part B" to this question, if someone would be kind enough to answer.  The default plan for the, now defunct, MeandeckGifts is T1) Land, Mox, Merchant Scroll into Ancestral Recall with counter backup, T2) Cast Ancestral, Brainstorm into mana and/or Merchant Scroll for Gifts Ungiven, T3) Cast Gifts for Yawgmoth's Will&Friends, T4) Combo off for the win.

Is there such a default plan with SuperLong?  Can someone spell it out for me in idiot-proof terms? Thanks!

Did you read part 1 of my SL primer? I don't think you can have it spelled out much more than what I do there.

Yeah, erm.. I read it.  I was looking for other people to contribute to the thinktank - ideally Lou or Mastriano.  This is only because what you list in your primer and what Smmenen lays out contradict each other.  You each have the same game plan, but with similar events taking place on different turns, or with differing resources.  Any one else have two cents on this??

[hauntedechos]

@ UFactor:  I'm not Lou or anyone important, and I'm not even a seasoned Storm / Gifts player.  However, I saw this deck as a chance to make a 5 proxy deck and a chance to play Storm Combo.

My 2 cents are:  The deck is slower, which means you set up a bomb to lead you to victory.  I don't even really care for Jar or twister in the deck, as it's been said often they don't lead you to a solid 20 pt Tendrils. 

On my end, I use the tutors to grab me Necro, or Tinker for DSC or Gifts to win me the game.  it's that simple.  Necro will give me a tutor for Yawgs will, Ponder or B.storm will put it to hand (this is usually a move made for me on turn 3 and further illustrates the power of having 7 Brainstorm effects in the deck.) I get my yard back, with a tutor in it.  At that point I'm already storming for the win with counter back up ( I run 2 MisD 4 FoW 4 Duress and 2 Thoughseize) and of course at this point one of 2 Cabal rituals are on hand.  If for some reason I get tripped up and don't feel I can make the full 20, I change gears mid combo, tendrils for what I can and fetch out Tinker for DSC with a protected Time Walk to finish what I didnt from Storm.  That's just a Will kill.

Often times I will go for a quick Tinker for Dsc, Duressing or having FoW/MiSD protection just to throw at my opponent to make him blow a counter or two.  I mean it doesn't hurt me any, I still have Tinker in the yard for a possible Will 2nd attempt.

or I will tutor for Necro and toss that out there at him under the same circumstances. ( run 1 Personal Tutor in addition to the 4 already used)

Or I will go for 3 turns of hand sculpting and fetch out an early Ancestral (like Gifts) and then tutor for the Gifts win set up, which usually doesn't include Will in the pile.

it goes on and on.  The fact of the matter is,for me the deck doesn't go for card advantage per se (which is something that TTS addresses), it goes for finding the bomb you want, play and protects it.  It doesn't recover quickly via drawing tonnes of cards it recovers via tutoring for another bomb to win the game.  Often times, I use that style of tossing a winning bomb out and protecting it, or as bait, then winning with Gifts/Necro.

I don't know if this makes sence to you, or if it's the kind of answer you are looking for.

Cheers
MIke