G/W Goyf

[zoidberg]

Here is a deck that i want to get some opinions on cause i think if it can speed up or have better options put in i can be good and viable in the new metta. The deck is g/w heavy aggro with some control aspecs and decent sideboard options are open, so here is what i got and the reasoning behind it.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Skullclamp
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Exalted Angel
4 Seal of Strength
4 Rootmaze
4 Ohran Viper
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Edge of Autumn
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Riftstone Portal
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Pains

Ok, now for the reasons behind my dumbness. O and if there is something better that stuff thats in and its a good reason please post

Tarmogoyf is a house and very good i dont think he needs much explination.
Swoards to Plowshares is for creature control
Skullclamp is for possible draw and creature buffing
I only put in 1 sword of fire and ice since skullclamp is better most of the time but i still wanted to have the option to do some damage with xantid swarm without killing them
Exalted Angel is for life gain and a good flying beater that comes out soon
Seal of Strength because he gives gofy essential +4/+4 and gives other creatures +3/+3 so its seems good
Rootmaze to slow people down more than me hopefully but this could be better as a sideboard card
Ohran Viper for card draw and creature control(wish he had evasion)
Gaddock Teeg to shut of tendrils, empty, x spells, and the gush engine
Edge of Autumn to make goyf bigger gets you land if needed and it puts riftstone portal in the yard
Xantid Swarm to help out against instants(mainly blue)
Flagstones for a Edge of Autumn target and deck thinning

[SimonCopp]

This deck has few ways to disrupt the opponent. Your creature base is also very shabby, like Angel and Viper just seems hugely slow in your deck. Riftstone Portal is interesting with a better card drawing engine like Bazaar but definitely isn't a 4 of and probably not a 3 of. You probably need more mana. Xantid Swarm doesn't really have anything worthwhile to protect.

Off the top of my head i would say

-4 Edge Of Autumn
-4 Seal Of Strength
-4 Xantid Swarm
-3 Skullclamp
-4 Ohran Viper
-1 Flagstones Of Trokair
-2 Riftstone Portal
-1 Sword Of Fire And Ice

+1 Strip Mine
+4 Wasteland
+2 Life From The Loam
+3 Bazaar
+1 Crop Rotation
+4 Wild Mongrel
+3 Wooded Foothills
+1 Mox Diamond
+4 Jotun Grunt

[zoidberg]

Ok so i did some changes but i dont like the bazaar loam draw engine and without it jotun grunt is bad with goyf and mongel might be good i still looking into that.

Here are my changes

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Exalted Angel
4 Seal of Strength
4 Rootmaze
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Skyshroud Elite
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Pains

[urweak]

Ok so i did some changes but i dont like the bazaar loam draw engine and without it jotun grunt is bad with goyf and mongel might be good i still looking into that.

Here are my changes

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Exalted Angel
4 Seal of Strength
4 Rootmaze
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Skyshroud Elite
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Savannah
3 Forest
2 Pains

if your going to run root maze i would cut back on the fetches, in my R/G deck i only run two b/c root maze really hurts them. Possibly replace three with three wastelands

[Zelow]

? i think jutun grunt life from the loam and strip mine/wasteland have a very good bond with each other the dridge you do can go back with jutun thats kinda sexy no? throwing cards you reall want back i have been taken by this deck and will play test it with some changes will post results and deck list later

[meadbert]

So this might be way too slow for vintage, but could Survival of the fittest or Squee Goblin Nabob work if you also use Bazaars and Loam?

4 Savannah
4 Temple Garden
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Dryad Arbor
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl

4 Life from the Loam
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Gaddock Teague
2 Aven Mindscensor

4 Root Maze
3 Engineered Explosives

SB: ???
Swords to Plowshares
Ray of Revelation
Thorn of Amethyst
Null Rod
Reverent Silence
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Loaming Shaman
1+ Kataki, War's Wage
1 Glowrider?
Leyline of the Void? Ichorid and Flash still exist ... easily discarded to Bazaar.
Ghost Quarter - Good synergy with main deck.  Good against Stax  + Ichorid.

The mana base works with Root Maze.  Temple Garden and Dryad Arbor's drawbacks go away if Rootmaze is out.
Horizon Canopy is painful, but it is nice to be able to filter it for another card.  Also, in a long game it is a draw engine with Loam.
Dryad Arbor is pretty much the worst card in the deck, but it does produce green, swing and pitch to both Bazaar and crucially Survival of the Fittest.  With Gaddock Teage, and no other artifacts other than Engineered Explosives off color moxes are not so good.  First of all Explosives hits them too.  Also with the Wastes and Strip there are already enough off color mana sources.

There is a lot of graveyard dependant draw here.  There is the Bazaar/Squee engine, the Bazaar/Loam engine, the Squee/Survival engine and Survival + any of the 21 creatures quickly leads to a flood of creatures since you can grab a recurring Squee.

Goyf is a huge beater.  He is obvious.  Vinelasher Kudzu is okay.  This deck will miss few land drops but with no fetches and without Fastbond or Crop Rotation he is much worse than in Worse than GAT.  Still, a growing Kudzu is a problem for a lot of decks so he is probably worth the spot.
Grunt is big and should have plenty to munch on with Bazaar, Survival and Loam doing their thing.
Gaddock Teague and Aven Mindscesor are hard to cast in the early game, but huge in the late game.  Both make excellent Survival Targets.

Root Maze is basically the card this deck is built around.  It is very annoying for most Gush, Storm and Yawg Will based decks.  Add any deck that runs fetchlands to that list.  Would you rather wait till turn 3 to Brainstorm or turn 4 to have Drain mana up?  Root Maze can be so painful.

Finally Engineered Explosives are in here.  I am sure there were a ton of WTFs at Explosives.  Reasons why I included it:
1:  Removes Chalice@2
2:  Removes Chalice@2 (This is very important)
3:  Fits into mana denial theme by wiping out Moxes.
4:  Removes Oath of Druids which is a problematic card for this deck.
5:  Warrens Tokens/ Bridge Tokens
6:  Explosives@1 annoying for Slivers Flash.
7:  Won't show up much, but Root Maze + Explosives is an effective Tormod's Crypt defense.
8:  Spot removal for Goyf/Dryad/Welder or whatever other low cc card is causing trouble. 

Other wacky ideas:
Centaur Garden - A land that produces g and gives a creature +3/+3 (The green Barbarian Ring)
Crop Rotation - Bad synergy with Root Maze, but finds Strip Mine and has nice synergy with Vinelasher Kudzu.
Sylvan Scrying - See above.  Could add a scry toolkit of Maze of Ith and a few other cards.
Words of Wilding - Post board rather than removing Leyline just drop Words with Bazaar and throw out 3 tokens a turn.
Balance: Since this deck tends to play Lands and Creatures while getting card advantage, Balance seems like the wrong card, but maybe it could work.

[madmanmike25]

Wish I woulda seen this first, here's some of what I posted on SCG.


Creatures: 20
4 Goyf
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Skyshroud Elite
2 Savannah Lions
2 Isamaru(just think of them as better lions)
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Garruk Wildspeaker*

Spells: 14
4 Root Maze
4 STP
4 Thorn
2 Loam

Lands+mana: 26
4 Bazaar
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Wasteland
4 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Riftstone Portal
1 Plains
1 Windswept Heath(could just be the new 2 life Dual)
1 Stripmine
2 Moxes
1 Black Lotus

*planeswalker, I know but can potentially make critters

Instant on-the-spot SB: 15
2 Jotuns
3 Kataki's
3 Seal of Cleansing/Primordium/anything better than Strength
3 Orims Chant
3 Aven
1 Squire(Tech; you know all that training is BOUND to pay off eventually)

As previously stated 4 ExAngels is too much and not really worth adding in Mana Crypt and Sol Ring. Angels pretty much take up 2 turns of mana (3 then 4) and without Crypt/Ring are a [Censored] to cast.

I also think Thorn will do well in this deck, and opted to put these in the main instead of Kataki's.

Teeg- Might as well go 4 since he will probably get countered or you can Bazaar him away. If he really does suck, then you can add in 4 more 2cc creatures such as: Mongrel, Kataki, River Boa, hell even the previously mentioned Watchwolf might not be so horrible.

Savannah Lions- It's G/W, how could you NOT include them?? They help round out the 1-drops. I originally had 4 until I remembered one of the few cards from Crapigawa that didn't suck. A 2/2 split seems good.

Garruk- When you play with as many creatures as I have +3/+3 and trample is awesome and you use it the turn after he comes out. He also mitigates Root Maze. If it comes down to Goyf vs. Goyf yours win. And just think!!! it makes Goyf bigger!!11!!  11. You will rarely be making 3/3's though.

Jotun- I don't get it. He's still good against Ichorid, Crucibles, Welders etc. So you play with Goyf? Reading is tech, pay attention to what card types you are putting away and you should be fine.

To have a remote shot at viability, you need Bazaars imo so you need to get over your dislike for the card. Canopies will also help, especially with Loam and Portals.

Good luck
Mike

[Dave Valentine]

You can try this :

4 Savannah Lions
4 Goyf
4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Sword to Plowshares ----> creature removal
4 Thorn of Amethyst ----> disruption
4 Watchwolf

3 Isamaru
3 Kataki ----> artifact hater
3 Jotunt
3 Orim's Chant ----> time walk

2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Winsweept Heath
4 Savannah
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Temple Garden
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal

Sideboard :

3 Null Rod
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Orim's Chant
1 Balance
3 True Believer ------> Tendrils
4 Kami Ancient Law -----> Oath


If you affraid of Engineered Explosive....you can Maindeck Null Rod..

[NicolaeAlmighty]

4 Kami Ancient Law -----> Oath

If you're afraid of Oath, go Ray of Revelation. You play the right colors, and two tries > counterspells (usually).

[Nevermore]

I think now that MUD is on the rise, the G/W is definetly a powerful option to consider seriously.

I have been doing some testing online and have had a lot of success, though im constantly trying to tweak the deck.
Note, I feel the bazaar/loam option is too slow, but I honestly havent tested it much.

Creatures:
(19) total

(1) drop
4 Skyshroud elite:  Basically guarenteed 2/3 and much better than any lions.  Very strong right now.
(0-2 Isamaru)??: He didnt make the cut, but 6 1 drop creature might be the right number

(2) drop
3 Gaddok teeg:  A House for many  matchups, mostly non MUD/Stax.  Only 3 bc he is legend and not decent vs most aggro
3 Kataki, War's Wage:  Again only 3 main deck, but he has become very strong again in current meta.  4 might be right number.
4 Tarmogoyf:  The big boy, obviously incredibly good right now.
3 Jotun Grunt:  Another beast, although synergy with goyf is not that good.  However he seemes good enough to play anyway.

(3) drop
2 Avenmindsensor:  Im not sold on him but he can be very good versus non aggo/mud decks.  Seems worthy of 2 slots.

Other considerations:
Im definetly up for suggestions.  Exalted angel seems good in current meta but too slow I think.

Pseudo card advantage (5)
3- keen sense
2- rancor
These have actually been working out very well for me, and they are also enchantments which helps with goyf.  I think keen sense is better than rancor personally but they are both good.  MAybe 4 keen is right.

Disruption: (15)
4 - root maze:  Root maze is incredible right now.  Great vs gat and combo, very good vsartifact based decks and heavy fetch decks.
It works especially well turn 1 root maze, turn 2 one drop, (which is why maybe 2 isamaru needed in addition to sky elite), and turn 3 tons of options. 
4 - swords to plowshares:  4 is the right number, because meta is right now very creature heavy
4- Seal of cleansing:  THese have been incredible and 4 is def the right number.  Kills fastbond, artifacts, feeds goyf, and has never let me down.  Stops oath too
3- damping matrix:  This may sound weird, and null rod might be better, but this stops togs and welders and other random things.  Doesnt interfere with any creatures.  I still have to test it out vs null rod.  The amount of things either matrix or rod includes trisk, SOFI, mindslaver, etc.

Lands: (21)
3 windswept heath: with rootmaze, 4 is questionable but 3 is very good for getting basic and rootmaze doesnt mess it up much
4 landgrant:  been great for me so far, can be countered or sphere of resistanced, but I think its good for thinning deck
2 plains
2 forest  Basics good vs fetch and magus
4 savanna:   no brainer
1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox pearl
1 strip mine - randomly good
1 - karakas - good for neat tricks protecting the legends, and also you can block with a legend and bounce it back - more of a case for 2 isamaru as well
1 - flagstone of trokair  - seems decent

NOT included
loam/wastes/bazaar/riftstone
I personally am not a fan of that but I understand that combo can be powerful.  However I feel this deck has fast clock and enough disruption and get get started faster without.


General play with this deck is rootmaze first if you can, then a 1 drop, then one of many 2 drops, then you have tons of enchants ments and protection spells to play.  Matrix has won many games for me, but if your not worried about tog or welder, go for null.

I have done very well versus stax, and have decent gat mathcup
Also works well vs random aggro, havent tested much else.

SB I havent thought through nearly as much but
0-4 ray of revelations - helps even more versus oath
4 orim chant - good vs combo
4 pacifisms - very good versus dryads, togs, colossus, and other big creatures
1 kataki
1 gaddok teeg
1 ?  maybe not many rays but have some ichorid defence


Please let me know if any ideas for improvements, and try the deck out, I believe it is very powerful in current meta.