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Author Topic: B/W control that has trouble and needs help  (Read 1708 times)
animefiend7
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« on: February 25, 2008, 03:45:00 pm »

 this is my deck list...and i need help with it. i play at the local sunday vintage tourny's and i go against a very good set of decks every time: 5-color Stax and GAT...and i have no response to these decks. Now keep in mind that i do not have any power, and that i do not have sufficient income to just go out and buy expensive cards. the cards in the deck are mostly acquired through trade.

Creatures:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Hypnotic Specter
2x Nantuko Shade
2x Mesmeric Fiend
2x Aven Mindcensor

Spells:
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Dark Ritual
2x Vindicate
2x Extirpate
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Thoughtseize
1x Lotus Petal
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Balance

Lands:
1x Stripmine
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Windswept Heath
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Scrubland
8x Swamp
1x Plains

Sideboard:
3x Diabolic Edict
3x Sacred Ground
3x Engineered Plague
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Seal of Cleansing
1x Disenchant

So, bob is the draw, then from there, its all about control. Mindcensor so they can't search, duress is obvious with hymn, dark rit for some speed, extirpate for 4 of's and mostly to work with duress or stripmine, balance against hard to manage aggro such as Empty the Warrens, swords for creature control, vindicate to work with both control and extirpate, only one thoughtseize cause i took out one for balance, using yawg's will just to see if it works, not sure tho. I like the buff of mesmeric fiend cause its more control and i opted for those instead of Phyrexian Negators cause i didn't enjoy sacking lands when they were blocked. so, thats my deck. Input would be graciously accepted...
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gold eyes
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 05:11:33 pm »

well does not seem to bad one thing i would think about though is street wraith it is draw for no mana and only the cost of two life you have a win condition of the shade so urborg is a good idea another thing to think about is bog witch its not bad for your deck and since your running so much control you can most likely get of will when you want it to get back any thing you pitched to it and  mean while u deal 3 more damage. Another thing you might want to think about is cabal ritual can make 5 black with threshhold which can be very bad for your opponent i do not know whats going to happen when you play because even though you run many discard spells it can still be bad because you are not running blue so almost no counter also if you happen to play a opponent playing goblins you could be in for some big trouble because you do not have anything to realy help you exept balance which is only good for one time unless you are able to play will after but you did not say goblins will be played and if they are i dont think too many will show up so i would not worry thats all i can realy think of to help you good luck with your deck.

                                                                                                                                                                          -gold eyes

I already asked you to improve the quality of your writing. Then you write this. I really can't discern what you're trying to say; the next time you post, please make the effort to write something which can be read. Verbal Warning.

Rich
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 04:59:15 pm by The Atog Lord » Logged

both amazing which one is better? phage or akroma
animefiend7
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 01:07:42 am »

well, i was also considering taking out vindicate and extirpate for cabal therapy...would that be a good decision to deal with the four ofs that gat tends to have?
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hauntedechos
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 07:58:10 am »

Hey Anime,

I would take out the Hymns because they can be misdirected.  Other than that, it looks like you are trying to play Suicide Black with the splash W to cover a few aspects that B cannot address. 

If I were you, I would use the search application on The Mana Drain and look up both Suicide Black and Legend Black.  It's from a while back, but it's the basis of a deck like yours. 
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.

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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 03:13:43 pm »

You're effectively asking for help making an unpowered deck consistently defeat two of the most broken decks in the format.  AND you want to control them, not just win faster.  I'd like to suggest that you're asking the impossible.

That said, Kataki will help to slow down Stax and 4x Extirpate (usually on Gush) will allow you slow down GAT.

Vindicate, Hypno Spectre, Fiend, and Shade are slow.  The decks you mentioned can almost treat them as if they're Everminds: they probably won't come down until after they're no longer relevant.

Also, "control" by concept means that you're controlling your opponents' access to some resource.  I don't see ANY ability to curtail resource access here.  Kataki (+Wasteland) would control Stax's access to mana.  Ankh of Mishra/Thorn of Amethyst/Extirpate (x4) would control GAT's access to its broken draw/mana engine.

Do the tournaments you attend allow *any* proxies?

You run Urborg, ToY to give your opponent access to black?  You don't need it.  By contrast, you could be using Wastelands to color-screw an opponent or cut Stax off from its' shops.  Extirpate on Shop is *brutal.*
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animefiend7
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 08:18:37 pm »

no, the tourny's i go to are rated and they do not allow proxies, unless the tournament strictly says so...and yeah, i understand what your saying, but i have found from personal experience is that tho shades and fiends and stuff are slow, it does mean permanents, which is what stax has trouble with...so, yeah, extirpate is good tech in my opinion, but what about some cards that i can put in, instead of telling me how bad my deck is....you said to take out my hymns, but what do i replace them with, mana?
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.

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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 08:43:52 pm »

To summarize my previous post, I'd do something like this:

-2 Vindicate
-4 Spectre
-2 Fiend
-2 Shade
-2 Urborg

+4 Sphere/Chalice/Thorn
+2 Extirpate
+2 Kataki
+3 Wasteland
+1 Demonic Consultation

-2 ______ from the board
+2 Kataki in the board

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A link to the GitHub project where I store all of my Cockatrice decks.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
Any interest in putting together/maintaining a Github Git project that hosts proven decks of all major archetypes and documents their changes over time?
animefiend7
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« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2008, 01:44:28 pm »

what about orb of dreams? would that be a viable sideboard card? and what about powder keg main decked?
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ErkBek
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A strong play.

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« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2008, 03:14:39 pm »

I wrote an article on this archetype a few months ago that may be helpful:

http://blog.mtgchicago.com/?p=15
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.

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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2008, 09:48:07 am »

@Becker

Is hand/draw/search disruption 'good enough?'  Chains + Mindcensor seems brutal in this meta.  I'm not sure that Hypno Spectre makes the cut, though.  He only strips one card per turn and you don't get to choose it.  Also, I'd be surprised to learn that your incarnation of the deck doesn't have problems with (competently piloted) Ichorid.  Moat and Leyline are both enchantments.

I'm also curious as to why you don't run Extirpate or Kataki in the sideboard?
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A link to the GitHub project where I store all of my Cockatrice decks.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
Any interest in putting together/maintaining a Github Git project that hosts proven decks of all major archetypes and documents their changes over time?
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