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Author Topic: type 4 [Shadowmoor]  (Read 9314 times)
darkmindtone
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« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2008, 12:30:32 am »

So my list for cards I'm going to add to Type 4 from Shadowmoor:

-Counterbore
-Put Away
-Puppeteer Clique
-Woodfall Primus
-Mistmeadow Witch (very, very strong, but as Mr. Type 4 said, it can actually be answered/countered unlike Chronicler)
-Din of the Fireherd
-Fracturing Gust
-Vexing Shusher
-Knollspine Dragon
-Repel Intruders

Possibles:
-Thought Reflection

I'm possibly missing one or two

EDIT: Forgot to add Shusher
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 03:20:12 am by darkmindtone » Logged
poggydude
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2008, 06:17:04 am »

Mirrorweave

Each other creature becomes a copy of target nonlegendary creature until end of turn.

Why doesn't anyone appreciate this

Yes it is narrow for their are considerably less nonlegendaries than legendaries

But for anyone who likes hilarious effects that are slightly narrow this one is for you

I mean come on everything is now a cinder elemental?

That would be just too funny
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2008, 09:57:32 am »

I’d put Mirrorweave right into my stack if it could hit Legends – that would make it a fairly reliable instant speed wrath of god, which would be quite good.  As it stands I’m pretty sure that Mirrorweave is going to get messed up more often than it will work.  If you target something good with the Mirrorweave then odds are it will get destroyed in response. 

Maybe if you had a lot of cards in your deck that made tokens or something like that.  Then you could use Mirrorweave for an alpha strike.

I know that a lot of people really like quirky cards like Mirrorweave, and it is certainly playable in many situations.  I just feel like it would be too narrow for my stack. 

I’m also concerned about confusing situations that could arise.  What if you Mirrorweave a Glarecaster? Just for example, there;s lots of complicated ones.  How do we reconcile all of those effects?  It’d be quite confusing, and Mirrorweaving Glarecaster could actually be a really strong move – so it would actually happen. 

Cinder Elemental, lol. 

PS - "Shattering Windburst" is actualy called Fracturing Gust.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 11:29:01 am by Mr. Type 4 » Logged

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Metamind
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2008, 04:08:21 pm »

Quote
Memory Plunder
   {ub}{ub}{ub}{ub}
Instant   Rare
You may play target instant or sorcery card in an opponent's graveyard without paying its mana cost.

So long as your type 4 rules allow this card to work (the card you cast from it will need to be a "freebie") it should be pretty sweet.

It's one of the stronger cards. The most common situation to use it is when one player plays a sorcery, another player counters it than you steal it at the end of turn. Sick.


I'm not too excited about Knollspine Dragon. Put Away is an autoinclude.


My add list (from best to worst):

Vexing Shusher (it's fragile but if it survives you win)
Mistmeadow Witch (a stronger card than shusher if you don't play killer cards like knollspine invocation)
Knollspine Invocation (it has an expensive cost, but killing players is always powerful)
Memory Plunder
Counterbore
Puppeteer Clique
Woodfall Primus
Put Away (I've tested it a bit. His add-on is quite strong)
Fracturing Gust
Thought Reflection (It would have been higher on this list if it had been better on its own than a blue shrine)
Din of the Fireherd (vague estimation)
Repel Intruders (tested. I like it but many other cards top it)
Knacksaw Clique (purely for the combo, I have got one at the prerelease and testing so far has shown it to be much worse on it own than I thought. It can mean hell survive a turn just cause of it, though so I'll wait for the serious games to decide)
Worldpurge

That's 14 cards!
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2008, 04:26:44 pm »

No Wound Reflection, Metamind?  I'd say that's a good bit more exciting than the blue reflection, and would be in the top 5 here.   

The blue reflection is good because it seems benign but could actually deliver you some decent returns. 

I agree with where you listed Memory Plunder - that card is a massive first pick.  It's very similar to a "made up" card we had been playing with which was easily one of the top 10 cards in my whole stack. 
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« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2008, 04:31:58 am »

Quote
No Wound Reflection, Metamind?  I'd say that's a good bit more exciting than the blue reflection, and would be in the top 5 here.   

Yeah, I forgot that one. I'd list it below counterbore and above puppeteer clique. It's number 6 IMO, not in the top 5 but if I exclude Knollspine Invocation he will be there.
Now it's 15 cards!

Quote
The blue reflection is good because it seems benign but could actually deliver you some decent returns. 

I think the blue one will be great and easily abused, but it still doesn't do too much on its own. I compare to my other massive draw spells: Tower of Fortunes, Mind Spring. He is a great card, but certainly not as good. He can be, of course, but there are cards that can do that on their own. It just shows the high power level of this set with 5 first picks and many more seconds that this card is in the 5 worst cards.

Paul, where would you rate Knollspine Dragon?
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2008, 12:36:20 pm »

I think Knollspine Dragon is right there on the edge of getting in.  I'd put it right above Din of the Fireherd (which I dont think I really want to include.  As much as it's nice to kill a land and a creature with one card, i don't know if that's good enough for a sorcery even with the 5/5 "bonus" creature which I couldn't care less about)

I think Knollspine is better than any creature that is just a beater.  Including cool cards like Razia or Serra Avatar.  In fact, the Dragon may replace Razia in my stack.   I think his ability is far from great, but it's decent and he's a solid beater on top of it.

I agree that Blue reflection is much weaker than all those draw spells that you have mentioned, but those are ones that are hotly contested when they are played.  Tower of Fortunes is EXTREMEMLY hard to resolve (and often ends up hit by Desertion or otherwise stolen), Mindspring depends on how greedy you are with it, but often causes a counter war.  Getting those cards off is not easy and you deserve to reap the better rewards from them if you do. Conversely, Thought Reflection seems like it might be safe to allow a player to have, and then you play a couple cantrips and really get ahead. 
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« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2008, 04:27:37 am »

Quote
I think Knollspine is better than any creature that is just a beater.  Including cool cards like Razia or Serra Avatar.  In fact, the Dragon may replace Razia in my stack.   I think his ability is far from great, but it's decent and he's a solid beater on top of it.

If a creature has both a bad ability and a bad body he doesn't cut it, unless it's better than the some of it parts or the ability is really freaking greater than it seems. I like hasty creatures, and razia has both haste and vigilance. Than again, she's legendary and has 3 toughness. And he is a dragon, and is on theme with Knollspine Invocation and Spinerock Knoll.

Quote
I'd put it right above Din of the Fireherd (which I dont think I really want to include.  As much as it's nice to kill a land and a creature with one card, i don't know if that's good enough for a sorcery even with the 5/5 "bonus" creature which I couldn't care less about)

A 5/5 free token is really great. Generally, the medium sized creatures are the ones that win games. See Beast Attack and Urza's Factory. No one will spend a removal on him, because better creatures will come. Many people think he'll get swiped by their next mass removal, but usually there are players that will commit a bit to the board and won't let that WoG resolve. And 5 to the head each turn is a lot. Token have uses beyond just attacking. You can sacrifice him, or use him to pay convoke. And the token's art is hot.
And that is just the worst case. If you happen to control another red or black creature, or a black and red creature, it gets better.

Quote
I agree that Blue reflection is much weaker than all those draw spells that you have mentioned, but those are ones that are hotly contested when they are played.  Tower of Fortunes is EXTREMEMLY hard to resolve (and often ends up hit by Desertion or otherwise stolen), Mindspring depends on how greedy you are with it, but often causes a counter war.  Getting those cards off is not easy and you deserve to reap the better rewards from them if you do. Conversely, Thought Reflection seems like it might be safe to allow a player to have, and then you play a couple cantrips and really get ahead.

Thing is, it still doesn't do a lot on it's own. Even if it doesn't do much, it has the threat of doing so, for good and for bad. There are cards that do much more than him even he's used to his full potential. It is a great card, but because he requires you to draft draw spells or at least a few cantrips, for an effect that's achievable in a single piece already, he won't be a high pick. I think most players will draft it AFTER they have drafted their draw spell, and not before, so in the pick order he's right there.
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Wagner
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« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2008, 08:26:30 am »

What to you guys think about the new Kraken? In late game its a 8/16 Shroud monster. Should it make the cut in a stack that already has Authocton Wurm? Should this replace it? Is its drawback too severe?
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Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2008, 11:01:53 am »

We're talking about this:

Isleback Spawn 
Cost:   2 {U} {U}
Card Type: Creature - Kraken 
P/T: 4/8 
Rules Text (Oracle):  Shroud
Isleback Spawn gets +4/+8 as long as a library has twenty or fewer cards in it. 


well, Autochron Wurm has a benefit in having a ridiculous casting cost.  Trample is also pretty good. 

This guy has Shroud which is pretty valuable, probably better than Trample, really.  The bigquestion is how big the average deck is when you play.  Sometimes I play with about 4 people and we have really big decks, in that case this guy sucks.  If I had 8 people or more, I could almost expect this guy to be big.  So, I think you just have to figure that out.  If he's usualyl going to get the bonus it's probably better than Autocron because beaters should have protection abilities. 
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« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2008, 11:09:54 am »

But yeah, he does cost 7 and not 4, still far from the Wurm though.

My playgroup mostly plays with Rochester/Sealed drafts, so the deck almost always have 40 cards.

Hell, I'll try to give Colossus of Sardia the boot for this one (was never realy impressed with him, fat big butt, nothing else.)
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