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Author Topic: Full explanation of Nantuko Husk/Faceless Butcher Combo  (Read 7518 times)
DracoGoesMeow
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« on: May 06, 2008, 01:56:28 pm »

I am curious if could get an official judges ruling on how this combo works..

Here is the scenerio:

I have Nantuko Husk in play.  On my main phase, I play Faceless Butcher, with it's come into play ability {When Faceless Butcher comes into play, remove target creature other than Faceless Butcher from the game} on the stack.  I then sacrifice the Butcher to Nantuko Husk to RFG the target creature permanently.

Question 1:  Is this the order I need to stack them for creature to be RFG permanently?
Question 2:  May I have a clear definition of how this works if in fact this is the correct stack procedure?
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Clariax
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 02:43:47 pm »

What you're saying does work.  When the Butcher comes into play, the "remove creature" trigger goes on the stack.  While this ability is on the stack, the Butcher in some way leaves play (sacrifice to Husk in this case).  The "remove creature" trigger is still on the stack.  The "return creature" trigger goes on the stack on top of this (as does the Husk's ability, but it's not relevant).

So you now have the "remove creature" ability on the bottom of the stack and the "return creature" ability on top of it.  The "return creature" resolves first, but there's no removed creature to return (since the creature hasn't yet been removed), so the 'return' ability won't do anything.  Next the "remove" ability resolves, removing the creature from the game.  As there's no longer a faceless butcher in play, there will never be any "return" ability to bring that removed creature back, so it simply stays removed forever (or at least until the end of the game (or some other spell or ability pulls it from the RFG zone)).
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DracoGoesMeow
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« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 12:18:10 am »

Here is a twist on the recent question:

Now there is that mechanic called persist, which will allow certain creatures to come back into play with a -1/-1 counter on them..Using Cauldron of Souls to give any number of creatures persist until EOT, is there a way to use the stack to sac the butcher to remove one target creature permanently THEN bring it back into play with persist to do it to another creature?  Any explanation if this is possible and if so, what the stack order would be would be most useful..
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Harlequin
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« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2008, 08:56:39 am »

Yes.

Play Cauldron, let it resolve.

Play Butcher, Let it resolve.
The "When Butcher Comes into Play" Triggers, You declare your target.
Now with that ability on the stack, active Cauldron and declare your target.

Stack Top--
Target creature(s) gains persist until end of turn
Butcher Remove Target Creature #1
Stack Bottom

Allow the Caudron Ability to resolve.  But then respond to the Butcher ability with Husk.  Pay the cost (sac a creature), and now TWO abilities trigger for Bucher leaving play.  You can stack the effects of leaving play in either order but it doesn't matter because you're going to resolve both anyway.

So the stack ultimate looks like this...

Stack Top--
Pump Husk
Butcher Returns removed creature
Butcher Persist Trigger
Butcher Removes Creature #1
Stack Bottom --

So now you resolve the first 3 abilities on the stack.  Hulk gets his boost, Butcher says "return ~nothing~ to play,"  Then you resolve persist which brings the butcher back from the grave. 
* At this point I would like to note that Creature #1 has still not yet left play.  And actually won't leave play until all these shenaegans are done.   This might be relevant and you should keep that in mind.

Ok so the persist trigger resolves and Butcher comes into play.  So now another trigger happens.  Declare your target, and sac him without passing priority this makes the stack look like this when you next pass priority.

Stack Top--
Pump Husk
Return creatures removed by Butcher2
Butcher2 removes Target creature #2
Butcher1 removes Target creature #1
Stack Bottom --

Now if you resolve that stack completely - you get a husk pump, Butcher2 says "ok return ~nothing~ to play."  Then Butcher2 removes the 2nd creature you targeted, and then finally Butcher1 removes that first creature you targeted at the begining.

Another thing to note, is that Butcher1 and Butcher2 are the same physical card, but the zone change means you treat them as two totally different butchers.  So later if you reanimate the same butcher and do this trick again you won't have to worry about the creature "remembering" that it removed creatures from the game previously. 
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