Mono Brown all the way

[The Exalted]

Hi all.

Some of my friends and I think Mishra's Workshop is the big winner after june 20. Some talks about 5 colors stax or 5 colors Juggernault. Here, I want to talk about Mono Brown. I'm not telling it's the best Workshop form of deck but at least, let's give it a try.

First, here is the list I'm working on, it's far from beeing perfect but it works pretty well in playtesting for me:


4 Juggernault
4 Orb of Dreams
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pithing Needle
2 Smokestack
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Trinisphere
1 Black Vise

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy


No tutors, no powerhouse card, no colors at all. Just a pile of unfun cards.

The point of this deck is to lockdown opponent and beating it with a juggie/factories/black vise/karn as fast as possible, and believe me, it works.

First, you probably notice there is 30 mana sources but port and factories needs fuel and with all thoses spheres, you want a lot of mana.

I don't know why people don't even talk about Orb of Dreams, it?s so good! It wrecks fetchs, but that's obvious. Its combine very well with spheres, port and Wasteland. With Ancient Tombs and all the others accelerants, it's easy to play it on the first turn.

Spheres are the major point of this deck. Destroy/tap there lands, play spheres and if your lucky, play a chalice @0 on the first turn and your opponent will not even have the chance to play a card of the game before a juggie rapes him.

Chalice of the Void is self explanatory.

Pithing Needles are there basically for Goblin Welders and Grindstone. I think it's more a metagame choice though.

Smokestack. I started by playing 4 of them. I found it was way too much. I feel I only want to see 1 in the game. And even there, sometimes it dies in my hand. Sometimes it make me win the game so I decide to play 2 of them.

Since there is a lot of basic lands (reason I play ports), Crucibles are less useful. Because I don't want 2 in a game, I decide to cut them to 2.

The lone Karn is there, maybe I don't need it. Sometimes, it end games the turn it came into play.

Black Vise is more a try then anything else. If you lock your opponent, vise wins by itself. For the moment, I like it.

Mishra's Factory are good beaters. It blocks and kill Juggernault! Against creatures based decks, you want them too.


Some people will say this deck has no card advantage at all and they may be right. For the moment, my playtest are very positive but I feel somme changes must be done to thqt pile.

As for the sideboard, many cards come to mind but nothing serious. Powder Keg, Tormod?s Crypt, Leyline of the Vault, Smokestack 3-4, Jester's Cap, etc...

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

your finishers are:

4xmanland
4xjuggernaut
2xsmokestack
1xblackvise
1xkarn

I this enough to win with the time provided by the 2balls? or do you think more black vise could be good? I mean, two black vises out already deal a real lot ot damage.
1 is kind of random.
Do you like port better than ghost quarter? or a combination?

Also, you might want to look at null rod, as it's very powerful, though as well shutting off your karn and moxen, but I don't know if it's necessary. (but against slaver, bomberman, combo and painter as well as anything with senseistop and some brown decks it's the house.) 

[madmanmike25]

At best, the lone Black Vise is similar to an unblockable 3/3 that "attacks" 1 turn sooner.  At worst, it is completely useless.  Imo the pros do not outweight the cons with more combo-ish decks out there and our old pal Ichorid still lurking around.  There is a reason it was unrestricted.

So you kinda just took out the Metalworkers for 4 more lands?  Interesting approach.  Not sure if the added Factories/Ports are better, but seeing as how your cc maxes out at 5, and a singleton 5 at that, it just might work out.

Needs more Karn.  See if you can add 1.  He's a super fast clock that can actually race before your soft locks wear out.

What made you omit Tanglewires?  You really think Orb is better?  Orb is a house cast on the play, but gets less impressive the more turns go by.  Tanglewire is a solid on-the-draw card and most turns thereafter.  But it's just a matter of testing and preference, I'm only speaking from my experience.  I did like Orb when playing vs. Ichorid though.  Good card, but has yet to find its niche as a staple.

I'm kind of curious why you would only want 2 Smokestacks in a deck with 9 spheres and 4 Chalices.  I would recommend -1 Black Vise, -1 Orb of Dreams for +2 Smokestack.  Or at least try out 3 copies.  So many times I have won games with Smokestack resolving when I had a soft lock out whereas a card like Jugger would have meant defeat.  MUD is a deck that can run 4 copies of both.

Pithing Needles seem really good in this deck though.  It gets the cards you mentioned plus Delta, Strand, and Bazaar(among others).   Hard to imagine any matchup where that card is dead, but I typically preferred them SB.

I never really liked the 2 for 1 mana trade-off with Rishadan Ports.  They just seemed win-more to me when I tried them.  I think you could cut 1-2 of these and add in the 4th Tomb and perhaps a G.Q. or City of Traitors.

Test Sensei's Tops, the last MUD deck I played really benefitted from just 2 of these(in addition to Jar).

Might be a good idea to put the previously mentioned Null Rods in the SB.  Other good SB cards are Tabernacle and Trikes.

Hopefully some of that helps you,
Mike

[Ancestralx]

Seems like you could drop the two smokestacks for two more vices since you lock the board with orb of dreams, chalices, and spheres and You could possibly play multiple vices on turn one? I tested a deck similar to this but did not play all the same cards so I am not sure how good that would be?

[meadbert]

I strongly suggest Serum Powder for this deck.  Without Mishra's Workshop this deck does too little too late.  Spheres and Thorns lock you down with no Shop and it takes a while to get the mana for Karn, Juggs and Smokey.  Serum Powder has plenty of other synergy with the deck.  Just opening with turn 1 Shop, Mox, Powder, Resistor/Thorn is a very strong opening since your opponent will be disrupted and you can still cast any card in the deck next turn.

Also, Petrified Field is worth considering since it can get back a Wasted Workshop or Academy or recur Wasteland or Strip Mine.

Karn is really, really good in this deck.  I would recommend running 2.  He is Legendary, but since you have no draw engine it will be fairly likely to draw both.  Running 3 is problematic against Welders because your opponent can Weld in both and they destroy each other due to the Legend rule.

Mana Crypt is a super powerful card, but it is very risky with so few ways to remove it.  Basically it functions as your opponent's win condition.  The only ways you can remove it are 2 Smokestacks and Karn.  With no Tutors or draw engine this means it is not uncommon to go 15 turns in between drawing one of those.  That is plenty of time for Mana Crypt to beat you.  Crypt is a busted beyond belief card in general and this is more true in Mud, but you really need more ways to remove it.  Maybe find room for 4 Smokestacks and more Karns.  To mitigate this you do have 4 Juggernaughts which easily win a race versus a Mana Crypt.  I have not tested your deck, but this is something to keep an eye on.

Okay so back to Serum Powder:
So Mana Crypt is busted beyond belief.  How good is Workshop?  Workshop = Land + Mana Crypt all in one ... oh and it does not damage you and is not shut off by Chalice or effected by Spheres or Thorns.  Mishra's Workshop could read (when you play this land search your deck for 2 Moxes and put them directly into play.)  It is just amazingly busted.  Mishra's Workshop is the heart and sole of this deck and it alone is the difference between this deck being completely unplayable and a contender.  Without Shop a Mud deck with no Welders, Bazaars or Metalworkers turns into some terrible standard deck that loses to everything.  With Shops Thorns, Resistors, Trinisphere, Orb of Dreams all become almost completely one sided.  This is why Serum Powder is so good.  You can mulligan into your Shop (or maybe Mana Crypt or Black Lotus) and then win that way.  With no Tutors RFGing cards does not hurt you at all so there is really no draw back.

[Cavius The Great]

Hi all.

Some of my friends and I think Mishra's Workshop is the big winner after june 20. Some talks about 5 colors stax or 5 colors Juggernault. Here, I want to talk about Mono Brown. I'm not telling it's the best Workshop form of deck but at least, let's give it a try.

First, here is the list I'm working on, it's far from beeing perfect but it works pretty well in playtesting for me:


4 Juggernault
4 Orb of Dreams
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pithing Needle
2 Smokestack
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Trinisphere
1 Black Vise

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy


No tutors, no powerhouse card, no colors at all. Just a pile of unfun cards.

The point of this deck is to lockdown opponent and beating it with a juggie/factories/black vise/karn as fast as possible, and believe me, it works.

First, you probably notice there is 30 mana sources but port and factories needs fuel and with all thoses spheres, you want a lot of mana.

I don't know why people don't even talk about Orb of Dreams, it?s so good! It wrecks fetchs, but that's obvious. Its combine very well with spheres, port and Wasteland. With Ancient Tombs and all the others accelerants, it's easy to play it on the first turn.

Spheres are the major point of this deck. Destroy/tap there lands, play spheres and if your lucky, play a chalice @0 on the first turn and your opponent will not even have the chance to play a card of the game before a juggie rapes him.

Chalice of the Void is self explanatory.

Pithing Needles are there basically for Goblin Welders and Grindstone. I think it's more a metagame choice though.

Smokestack. I started by playing 4 of them. I found it was way too much. I feel I only want to see 1 in the game. And even there, sometimes it dies in my hand. Sometimes it make me win the game so I decide to play 2 of them.

Since there is a lot of basic lands (reason I play ports), Crucibles are less useful. Because I don't want 2 in a game, I decide to cut them to 2.

The lone Karn is there, maybe I don't need it. Sometimes, it end games the turn it came into play.

Black Vise is more a try then anything else. If you lock your opponent, vise wins by itself. For the moment, I like it.

Mishra's Factory are good beaters. It blocks and kill Juggernault! Against creatures based decks, you want them too.


Some people will say this deck has no card advantage at all and they may be right. For the moment, my playtest are very positive but I feel somme changes must be done to thqt pile.

As for the sideboard, many cards come to mind but nothing serious. Powder Keg, Tormod?s Crypt, Leyline of the Vault, Smokestack 3-4, Jester's Cap, etc...

Isn't Tangle Wire better than Orb of Dreams? I also hope you realize that Black Vise is unrestricted but assume you only chose to run 1.

[The Exalted]

First, thanks for the positive feedbacks. I changed my list. First, I dropped the Ports and the mana count from 30 to 22. I drop the Mishra's Factory for Tangle Wires and I like that.

Here is the new list:

4 Juggernault
4 Smokestack
4 Serum Powder
4 Tangle Wire
4 Orb of Dreams
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere


5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
3 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy


I really really like the Serum Powders! Because the deck have no tutors and draw, I decide to play four copies of each cards exept Null Rods. Some of my friends told me they prefer Crucible of Worlds and I must admit Wasteland on my Workshop is the play I fear most. The deck also fear an early Welder. Oath is also a problem but I think every MWS fears it. That's the reson why I play Ensanaring Bridge in the board.

I tried Metal Worker but not so sure about it, if it get countered or destroyed, I'm in big trouble. Playing without is going great anyway.

Exept that, this pile is so broken! My first turns are always broken. Many times, if I can fallow with a Jugger or Karn second turn, the opponent cannot play a single spell and he is dead!

For the moment, I really like Orb of Dreams, especially on the first turn. I want to find room for Crucibles and maybe more rods. Maybe a fourth Tomb too. The deck is so stif, the only card I can see be cuted is Orbs.


Any tips about that new list?

[Bill Copes]

Orb of dreams is terrible in multiples, so you can probably afford to pare them down to two or three copies.

You probably don't need null rod in the main deck with 8 spheres,  chalices. and 3x karn.  It's a bomb vs. certain decks though, so it should be a sideboard consideration.  Karn + chalice on 0 is effectively better here than null rod since your main goal is to cut off enemy permanent production and mana.  Null rod only does half the job.  Your opponent will just end up sacking useless moxes to smokestack.  Also Karn's animating ability is what gives this deck a clock, so null rod is counter-intuitive in that respect.

This would leave three slots open.  Add three crucibles, perhaps?

[bait_bludgeon]

no metalworkers? am i missing something?

[Moxlotus]

There is no way 22 mana sources will work in a deck with 9balls.  Heck, there is no way 22 mana sources would work in ANY type 1 deck.  Shop decks tend to have a 26 mana source minimum.

[Bill Copes]

no metalworkers? am i missing something?

I Agree!

and

There is no way 22 mana sources will work in a deck with 9balls.  Heck, there is no way 22 mana sources would work in ANY type 1 deck.  Shop decks tend to have a 26 mana source minimum.

I definitely agree!

I didn't look things over carefully enough to see that you were missing workers.  They are the linch-pin of any mono-brown deck, tried and true.  You can get away with running 22 sources + 4 metalworker, because of serum powder's mulligan ability.

As for things to cut to fit them, I'd suggest canning the smokestacks all together and moving the recently suggested crucibles to the sideboard.  Then you can fit in 4x metalworker and 3x Staff of domination, providing you with a faster alternate win condition.

[bait_bludgeon]

to theexalted- why not just netdeck a mud deck? then work from there on the modifications or whatnot. iono

[madmanmike25]

There is no way 22 mana sources will work in a deck with 9balls.  Heck, there is no way 22 mana sources would work in ANY type 1 deck.  Shop decks tend to have a 26 mana source minimum.

That's typically true, but sometimes Serum Powders can act as the 4 extra mana sources.  Meadbert can testify on Serum Powders ability to put Shop in your opening 7 which is always a good thing for MUD decks.  It seems like the Powders are simply replacing Workers.

The only problem I see is the lack of synergy with Null Rod and full artifact acceleration, Karn, and of course Serum Powder.  Unless they are rocking it for you maindeck, try putting the Rods in the SB and presto, you can add in Crucibles.  If need be you can go down to 3 Orb of Dreams for the 3rd Crucible.  The other option is to swap in Tops for the Rods.

Test City of Traitors, even if its only 1 copy.  In this case you could do 1 City and 2 Tombs and see if that helps or hinders you.  Sometimes that life loss matters.

Sorry Bill, but I have to disagree with cutting the Smokestacks.  That card has way too much synergy with the 9 Spheres, Chalices, Orbs, and Tangles that this deck runs.  It's also a very good complement to the Jugg/Karn aggro plan if that falls through.  I think having 2 relliable ways to win is better than trying to put a combo in here.

The rest of the changes look solid, good job.  I had a feeling Ports wouldn't last.

What other decks are you testing this against?

What does your SB look like besides E.Bridge?

[Bill Copes]

Sorry Bill, but I have to disagree with cutting the Smokestacks.  That card has way too much synergy with the 9 Spheres, Chalices, Orbs, and Tangles that this deck runs.  It's also a very good complement to the Jugg/Karn aggro plan if that falls through.  I think having 2 relliable ways to win is better than trying to put a combo in here.

No prob 

I agree with you that it has a massive amount of synergy with the rest of the deck, but from my experiences with mud in tournaments and in testing (pre gush/b.storm/scroll restriction -- not in today's slaver ridden meta), with all of the other disruption, smokestack wasn't necessary because you were able to win with either jugg/karn beatings or staff + worker before the opponent got out from under the tangle wire + sphere trap.  Seldom did the lock fizzle out.

With the resurgence of Control Slaver and all of the welders running around nowadays, I don't think smokestack is as strong as it was 2 months ago.  If you have ways to remove welder, then it is a house.  Otherwise, it's somewhat a dead card.

[madmanmike25]

Here is the list I am testing that has so far surpassed my expectations.  It's got a TON of disruption:

Metal:  38
4 Juggernault
4 Smokestack
4 Serum Powder
4 Tangle Wire
3 Orb of Dreams
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Karn, Awesome Golem
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere

Mana+acceleration:  22(26 if you dare to count Serum Powder, read on)
5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
2 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

*my changes are bolded

Notes:
3 Karn is the right number it seems.  Our 'finishers' are Smokestack, Juggernaut, and Karn for a grand total of eleven cards.  Seeing multiple Karns isn't very frequent, and it's normally good to see one.  That being said, I would not go to 4 copies.  I think running 2 would just be splitting hairs and you could then argue that running only 1 is optimal since he is legendary.

I should note that Juggs and Smokestack are awesome cards in this deck.  Being able to run both just feels right.

Take a look at all that yummy disruption.  9 Spheres,  4 Chalice, 4 Smokestack, 3 Orb, 4 Tangles, 1 Stripmine and to a lesser extent 3 Karn, 3 Crucible, and 4 Wastelands.  I said God damn.

I haven't really missed any form of draw.  I imagine that is due to having fewer lands and drawing into more business.  Serum Powder can also help here as well.

I also have not missed Metalworker in this deck.  Yeah, I don't understand it either.  It just seems to work.

So far I like the singleton City.  Not much else to say about that.  Having Crucible *almost* makes me want to bump the count, but that doesn't seem prudent.

I could easily forsee mana problems if I played with Null Rod.  So I swapped in Crucibles which protect our manabase, have synergy with Smokestack, and can provide a Waste-lock.  As mentioned, you don't really need 4 Orbs, probably the same way you don't really need 4 Crucibles in this meta.  I guess you could split hairs here too and only run 2 Crucibles, not that the extra card should be Orb though.  I might test Metalworker in this slot and see which is more potent, but I haven't found a reason to do so.....yet.

Regarding the low mana count:
This somehow has not been a problem.  Although I tested many games I only documented a sample size of 10 games in a row.  Right or wrong, the amount of mana sources in my opening hand averaged 2.4; or 2.8 if I counted Serum Powders.  The average mana available turn 1 was 3.5.  This is due obv. to all the cards that break the 1 card/1 mana rule.  Two games I had 6 mana on turn 1.  On an unrelated side note, I wonder why Black Lotus is restricted??

5 of those 10 games I saw Serum Powder.  I only used its mulligan ability once, the other 4 times it just served as a mana source.  Even when I used the Powders in undocumented games, it just seemed like I always saw better cards.  RFG'ing soft-lock cards helps you bump into the good stuff.  So far I have yet to "mull into oblivion".  Then again I have not tested 100+ games.

Possible SB options:
Pithing Needle, Tabernacle, Null Rod, Leyline(great with Powders), Cap, and Dupe/Razor/Trike for aggro.  This deck has so much combo hate I doubt the Rods are even needed.


Those are my findings, whatever they are worth.  This version I have tested seems *ahem* rock solid.  Not to get too excited, but I would say it runs as good as any MUD build I have ever played; and that's saying something.  Regardless whether or not you decide to run Crucibles, I strongly recommend taking out Null Rod if you intend to keep in Serum Powder which is good in this deck.

Shop players should definitely take a closer look at this.  Kudos.

Mike

p.s. My previous disdain for Serum Powder in other Shop decks remains intact.  In this deck it doesn't feel like it's taking slots away from better cards like it does in other builds.

[Sean Ryan]

Not running the full set of Tombs and the 3rd City is probably wrong.  Adding consistency to the manabase would lessen your need for Serum powde, which is a horrible top deck.  Whats your rationale for not doing so? 

Are you comfortable with just Chalice/Stax for Welder game 1?  In a meta full of Slaver Mud needs access to Trike game one.

[meadbert]

Not running the full set of Tombs and the 3rd City is probably wrong.  Adding consistency to the manabase would lessen your need for Serum powde, which is a horrible top deck.  Whats your rationale for not doing so? 

Are you comfortable with just Chalice/Stax for Welder game 1?  In a meta full of Slaver Mud needs access to Trike game one.

Ancient Tomb is definitely very good.  The life loss can be annoying against Aggro or Tendrils based decks so that is a consideration, but it is a good card.
City of Traitors is not nearly as good.  The problem is that with so many Resistors/Thorns you cannot afford to stop playing lands or sacrifice lands.

That said, City and Powder have some synergy in that with City out you can still cast Powders to grow your mana base.

Serum Powder is a perfectly fine Top deck.  It is certainly no worse than City of Traitors or Ancient Tomb.  Also by running Powders you will begin with Shop more frequently and you will no longer need as man Cities and Ancient Tombs.  A significant downside to Powder is that it makes you more reliant on Workshop and thus more vulnerable to Wasteland.  Crucible of Worlds and Petrified Fields are options to address this.

[Darkenslight]

I wonder whether the Paint-Stone combo should be in the board, seeing as both pieces are artifacts.  Also, is there nay potential for splashing U or G for recursion purposes (Ruins or Gaea's Blessing), seeing as there is no other way to recur all those 'shinies' at your disposal.

Moreover, both act as protection from said Combo (Paintstone), due to them putting cards back into the deck.  Just a thought.