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Author Topic: Holocaust  (Read 7948 times)
Wagner
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« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2008, 03:58:59 pm »

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Cursed Cleansing   {1} {B} {R}
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant nonbasic land

If enchanted land is tapped for mana, instead Cursed Cleansing deals 2 damage to that land's controller.

Why would anyone ever tap this land then? It basically says this land is now useless but not technically destroyed.

Too complicated I agree.
Quote
{} - 1BB
Enchantment
At the beginning of enchanted land's owner's upkeep, that player loses one life.
Enchanted land is a Swamp.

Seems rather weak, but alright for an uncommon.

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andrewpate
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« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2008, 04:49:50 pm »

I wouldn't knock Anusien's version for Limited.  Un-fixing their mana is not irrelevant, and the "bleeding" effect can really add up.  I won more than a few RRG and RGD draft games with something like 2xPillory of the Sleepless and an Agent of Masks doing the majority of the damage.  At common, in a set with a good amount of black control, it would be a decent pick.

But he wants a card highly relevant in Legacy.  And since Sinkhole sees only fringe play there, that's asking a lot.  A fool's errand if you ask me, but several of the other cards suggested here are interesting for other formats.
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Wobbles
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« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2008, 09:51:30 pm »

I agree, LD in Legacy just doesn't see much play outside of wasteland. I mean, Molten Rain would almost always have targets, but sees no play. Sinkhole sees solid teir 1.5 play, but one card for one land is a really high threshold unless it is basically free like wasteland.

Also, causing a land to lose all abilities is really bizarre. The templating is a lot easier if it destroys the land, or if it taps the land and doesn't allow the land to untap (go go tabernacle and glacial clasm). A lot of the pin's suggestions use interesting templating that has alot of stuff going on with it, like weird permanent pseudo-buyback kicker costs. That's pretty cool, probably better served with it's own keyword, rather than shoehorning it into kicker. 

If I were templating it, Pin's ideal card would look like:

Enchantment-Aura
Enchant Player
When ~ comes into play, destroy target land.
~ deals enchanted player one damage during their upkeep.

Considering Wizards costing of Poison the Well or Fulminator Mage, I wouldn't expect this to cost less than 4 if it were printed today, and I don't think it would see legacy play even if it costed as much as 3 (It would see definate play in T2 and extended at 3, and some T2/Block play even at 4). At two mana, even mana of different colors, it becomes pretty broken in legacy.

To do everything you want and be printable, the best I can think of would be this:

Nuked RB
Enchantment-Aura
Enchant Tapped Non-Basic Land
Enchanted Land does not untap during it's controlers untap step. Nuked deals one damage to that lands controler during your upkeep.

It's still going to push T2 and maybe even extended decks towards monocolor pretty hard, which is tricky given it's mana cost. Making it target non-basics is really the only way to push it's power level in the older formats without completely wrecking the newer formats.

Enervation Machine is tricky, as the counter moving mechanic is different then common tapping templating. As it stands, it's a really funky combo with your own Glacial Clasm or Thawing Glaciers. I would template it as such

1
Artifact
1: Remove target land you don't control from the game if no other card is removed from the game this way.
0: Return all cards removed from the game by ~ to play.

Mutiples copies would require some keeping track of, but no more so than the counters. Rishadan port is a really good analogy, as is ark of blight. I mean, Ark of Blight is functionally identical a fair amount of the time. You would, again, really need to push down Ark of Blight's costs significantly to make it good enough for legacy. At 1 to play and 1 to use, it's silly dumb, all but the most degenerate combo decks would use it. I mean:

Stone Raindrop 3
Artifact
Sacrifice stone raindrop: Destroy target land

Might see play in Faerie Stompy style aggro, but dragon stompy doesn't bother with stone rain itself so it wouldn't be a necessity.

New cards mostly see eternal play when they are doing something unique or they slipped through the cracks of R&D ala tarmogoyf. Destroy target land is something that has been done to death, and you just aren't going to get it at a more efficient cost than 2.
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serracollector
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« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2008, 01:30:09 pm »

I would make it say this:
CC: BR
Type: Enchant Land
Text: When -card name- comes into play tap target land, it does not untap during untap step.  If target land is non-basic, instead destroy it.
B/R: -card name- does 1 damage to target lands controller, you may only use this ability once per turn.
Discard a land: Return -card name- from your graveyard to your hand.

This balances it in the fact that:
A) Its 2 colors, yes its 2 man but still no dark rit, first turn mana denial
B) It only destroys the land if its non-basic.
C) It only does damage (or life loss) if you pay mana on top of the CC.
D) Its returnable but at the cost of one of your own lands.

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Anusien
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« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2008, 01:51:04 pm »

Why make it returnable?  Why does a card that has the potential to be incredibly simple (like all land destruction) end up so complicated?  Tap + doesn't untap + possibly destroy + damage + return.  This is trying to do wayyyyyyy too much.

What is wrong, again, with Blight + Evil Presence anyway?  It's far far simpler, allows it to cost less than other versions would, and it gives you a benefit to your Swampwalkers.
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