maximizing tarmogoyf

[KingHeavy]

Being that Tarmogoyf has become THE standard two-drop in all of magic history and every constructed format that it's legal in I though I'd start a thread about how to maximize tarmogoyf.  What I mean is, being that Tarmy is a major kill condition, by increasing his P/P it also decreases the win clock by a turn or two.

Permanent types: instant, sorcery, land, creature, artifact, enchantment, tribal, planeswalker:  max P/T 8/9  for a three turn clock or two considering petches and thoughtseize.

In most vintage decks there are only four to five permanent types whether they runny tarmy or not.  This means a four to five turn clock to win.

So there are two main questions,  1) is it worth while to maximize tarmogoyf in order to decrease the win clock, meaning is it worth it to run enchantments, tribal, or planeswalkers to make winning easier?  and or does it?  and 2) what are the best cards in the under-represented permanent types that are vintage playable if any?

NOTE:  with Tezz being a more common vintage card and cards like ethersworn canonist and some other artifact creatures, we can really maximize the efficiency of overlap in the permanent types.  So sound off.

INSTANT: any number of counters and card draw (FOW, Recall, etc.)

SORCERY:  Probably tutors, land grant!

LAND:  strip/wasteland

CREATURE:  ESG, SSG, street wraith

ARTIFACT: mox, CotV, artifact lands, painters servant (also creature) any artifacts that go right to the graveyard

ENCHANTMENT: standstill, possibly bitterblossom

TRIBAL: This type benifits from always having two permanent types see bitterblossom, eyes of the wisent(this could be cool) warren wierding (for DSC and naught?),

PLANESWALKER: Obviously Tezz, possibly ajaini vengent or garruk


So some of them are better than others, and we have to consider should we maximize the chances of getting six to eight perm types in the yard for a quicker kill, or should we just build a homogenous vintage deck that puts in tarmy as a follow to a fad. 

Here's a basic core that could be a goog starting place.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 ESG
4 Land Grant
4 FOW
4 standstill
4 Cotv
4 wasteland
1 strip
1 lotus petal
1 black lotus
3-5 mox
2 tezz
3-5 tutors
2 brainstorm/ponder

so 41 to 45 cards that looks like a lot of vintage cores with all types represented but tribal and planeswalker.  Id like to hear what you all think is the best card for each type and any other ways to maximize tarmogoyf.  Thanks!

[Soon-Man]

So this is kinda like a combination of Landstill and Threshold? With out Walkers and Tribal, Goyf is still the baddest dude in town. You can try things like Bazaar+Squee+Loam. You can even keep in standstill. Use Bazaar to filter threw things and bump your Goyf while you have them locked. Load up on Counters and more Goyfs. Have you tried this out with Factory and Ninja? Maybe you even want to play Mistblade to keep your opponents board clear.

[The Red Panda]

CREATURE:  ESG, SSG, street wraith

ESG and SSG don't get put into your graveyard, they're removed from the game.  This is assuming, of course, you're not trying to beat face with them  .

[JACO]

Having played Tarmogoyf in a number of Vintage decks already, I can tell you that you want to take this in a tempo based direction, like he is best used in Legacy and Extended. That means don't play crappy spells like Land Grant, ESG, Street Wraith, planeswalkers, etc. Just fill up your deck with good cards, and combat what your opponent is trying to do.
Creatures to choose from (preferably that do something to limit the opponent's options, and/or create tempo): Dark Confidant, Ethersworn Canonist, Spellstutter Sprite, Meddling Mage, Magus of the Moon, Painter's Servant, Trinket Mage, etc.
Instants: everything Blue in Vintage that's already busted
Enchantments: stuff like Counterbalance, Bitterblossom, and Mystic Remora, or Threads of Disloyalty out of the Sideboard
Artifacts: Moxes, Engineered Explosives, Sensei's Divining Top, Grindstone (if playing Trinket Mage and Painter's Servant), possibly AEther Vial if you have tons of creatures, etc.
Sorcery: Duress, Thoughtseize, Strategic Planning, Time Walk, Mind Twist, Merchant Scroll, Yawgmoth's Will, Regrowth, etc.

Owen Turtenwald split a Mox in a smaller tournament today with a deck based on Tarmogoyf, Confidant, Spellstutter Sprite, and some other goodies today. Tarmogoyf doesn't have to have a deck designed around in, because if you're playing good cards and interacting and disrupting your opponent, both of your graveyard are going to fill up with goodies pretty quickly. I hope this helps you in your quest to make the ultimate Tarmogoyf deck.

[bisamratte]

I built an unpowered Fishdeck around this concept. Here the List:

      2 Polluted Delta
      2 Mutavault
      4 Wasteland
      1 Strip Mine
      4 Tropical Island
      3 Flooded Strand
      3 Island
      4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
      2 Sage of Epityr
      3 Cursecatcher
      4 Spellstutter Sprite
      4 Tarmogoyf
      3 Null Rod
      4 Standstill
      1 Misdirection
      4 Stifle
      3 Daze
      4 Force of Will
      1 Brainstorm
      1 Mystical Tutor
      1 Echoing Truth
      1 Ponder
      1 Life from the Loam
      SB: 3 Trygon Predator
      SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
      SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
      SB: 3 Pithing Needle
      SB: 3 Oxidize
      SB: 1 Echoing Truth
      SB: 1 Gaea's Blessing

[Dr.KnowMaD]

The street wraiths are not crap.  I have been using them for a long time instead of confidants and haven't been disappointed one bit.  Not to say that confidant isn't usually better, they are. Street wraith just happens to fit my build and play style at the moment with better synergy and accomplish exactly what I want them to.  Also it is unfortunate to have to remove the spirit guides (has anyone else always wished they had flying).  The Cursecatcher is one of the best ideas for many reasons. Try them.

I optimize one way by using seal of primordium (two seals, one Krosan grip main) between those and my board I can usually handle plenty.

If I ever go with red again which is always possible, I think I'll try Tarfire for kicks.

Maximizing the mutant Tarmogoyf is a great idea seeing that beatdowns is really the only thing he"s good at but I agree with the fact that it can't be at the expense of the deck as a whole.   


                                                                                                                                             Keep on build'n,
                                                                                                                                               Pet decks for the win,
                                                                                                                                             Dr.KnowMaD
                                                                                                                                   

[Smmenen]

Strategic Planning

Oops, Goyf is enormous!

[bait_bludgeon]

Keeper 2k8

5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland
3 Island
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst For Knowledge
3 Impulse
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Gush
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Fact Or Fiction
1 Brainstorm
1 Tinker
1 Echoing Truth
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Triskelion
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall

Although there are only 2 tarmos in the deck, he does make quite an impact on the field, regardless of the p/t he posesses. I honestly dont think that tarmogoyf needs to be a central force in any deck to make him significant, as he just simply does that by being an automatic 3/4- 5/6 in games and only costing a green and a colorless to play. Granted though I do think that certain cards need to be included or taken into consideration when adding tarmo to the deck.

-strip effects
-counterspells or removal (force of will to counter an artifact to make tarmo +2/+2 or tarfire to make +3/+3)
-potential discard effects

Now granted not all of these options need to be maximized or fulfilled in one deck. Keeper doesnt focus on discard or removal but excels at counters and strip effects making tarmo almost always a 4/5 or 5/6.  As I have found in about 90% of games with keeper, tarmogoyf gets there with just being a 4/5 or 5/6 (heh "just being" a 4/5 or 5/6). The other 10% of the time comes from running into DSC.

[The Atog Lord]

I'd look at Rodney's Vintage Dreadstill lists. They use Tarmogoyf very well, and have a diverse array of card types.

[Metanoia]

if you are gonna build your deck from the ground up:

Elvish Lyrist
Druid Lyrist
Elvish Scrapper
Scavanger Folk
Viridian Zealot

Seem pretty synergetic.
Maybe add some Equipment for them to use if your opponent has no viable targets?
Or Null Rod if you want to go the other way. Something like this:

4   Druid Lyrist
4   Scavanger Folk
4   Jungle Lion
4   Rancor
4   Null Rod
4   Tarmogoyf
4   Vexing Shusher
3   Cold Eyed Selkie
2   Crucible of Worlds
1   Regrowth
1   Crop Rotation
4   Elvish Spirit Guide
4   Land Grant
5   Stripmine
8   Forest
4   Fetchland

Other synergys should be apparent: Crop Rotation, Stripmine, Crucible. Rancor instead of equipment because of Null Rod. Also works very nice with Cold Eyed Selkie.