OmniStrife_101
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« on: June 04, 2009, 08:20:01 pm » |
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I have been reading quite some number of posts here to help me come up with a viable deck which I can utilize my current resources with. I do not own a full set of power only the following, - Black Lotus - Ancestral Recall - Mox Sapphire - Mox Ruby - Mox Pearl and yet despite this, I was bent on making a combo deck utilizing rituals and drains, so with some back reading I found my self Intuition Tendrils. I initially tried to create the deck based on the lists posted here. I am hoping for you guys if you have some suggestions on my current build. Intuition Tendrils v.1 Lands ( 15 ) 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Flooded Strand 2 Polluted Delta 4 Island 2 Swamp 4 Underground Sea Mana Accelerants ( 14 ) 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Chrome Mox 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Pearl 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Mana Crypt 4 Dark Ritual 2 Cabal Ritual Disruption/Defense ( 12 ) 2 Duress 2 Thoughtseize 4 Force of will 2 Mana Drain 1 Chain of Vapor 1 Rebuild Tutors ( 8 ) 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mystical Tutor 3 Intuition 2 Beseech the Queen/Lim Dul's Vault Draw/Filter ( 5 ) 2 Deep Analysis 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Brainstorm 1 Ponder Broken Stuff ( 3 ) 1 Necropotence 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 1 Yawgmoth's Will Kill ( 3 ) 1 Tendrills of Agony 1 Tinker 1 Inkwell Leviathan/Dark Steel Collossus Critical Card Choices - 2 Beseech the Queen/Lim Dul's Vault - I don't own Imperial Seals or Grim Tutors. Originally, this slot was meant for Goblin Charbelcher and Mana Severance - Tinker to Inkwell or Dark Steel Collossus - I felt the need to include a secondary win condition just in case. Our meta game consists of Tez, Oath, Fish, and a lot of rogue decks. What do you guys think? Initially I was pondering on just going with Drain Tendrills but I wanted to explore combo fueled by rituals. Thanks for any constructive and destructive criticisms you may have on the deck.. 
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meadbert
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 09:31:07 pm » |
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Cabal Ritual is probably better than Chrome Mox.
I am not sure what to do about missing Grim Tutors. Intuition for 2xGrim + Demonic is a common play. Despite missing Grims I doubt Beseech the Queen or Lim Dul's Vault are the correct alternatives.
Twister (If you have one) and Merchant Scroll should probably be added. Perhaps Gifts Ungiven and Fact or Fiction could also be added.
15 Lands seems like too many to me, but then I am not experienced in playing without a full set of Moxen.
So maybe -1 Lim Dul, -1 Queen, -1 Land, -1 Chrome Mox, +1 Cab Rit, +1 Scroll, +1 Gifts, +1 Fact.
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T1: Arsenal
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Sam101
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 09:40:55 pm » |
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I too am working with intuition tendrils, but our lists are different.
Here is what I would try (not including extra p9): - 1 swamp - 1 chrome mox - 2 lim dul's vault/beseech the queen
+ 1 volcanic island + 1 lotus petal + 1 recoup + 1 merchant scroll
If anything, I definitely think you should try the red splash for recoup. Considering that the game plan for intuition tendrils is survive the early game, build a big graveyard, and yawgmoth's will for the win, I think you need a recoup. Late game Intution for Yawg will, recoup, lotus is the nuts.
Recoup can also come in handy with tinker/time walk.
I am happy to see that someone else is working with I.T.
Good luck!
Sam
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OmniStrife_101
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 09:48:26 pm » |
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@ Meadbert - Thanks for the sugestions! Will definitely make changes and playtest also.
Actually, I just thought of Beseech the Queen and Lum Dul's Vault as a desperate replacement for Grim and Imperial.
How about Lotus Petal?
@sam101 - Thanks also for the suggestion! If ever, can you share your IT list?
I think splashing red is something I have thought about in the past, but am not sure on the effect it has on the resiliency of the deck to mana denial. Running Recoup would also be in line with Meadbert's suggestion of running Gifts Ungiven.
what kind of meta game are you facing there?
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ErkBek
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Posts: 974
A strong play.
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 09:58:04 pm » |
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I never liked FOF in the deck, but Gifts was alright. Given the lack of Grim tutors, I think playing Recoup + Gifts is a good idea.
Scroll is great in here. Definitely need to run 1.
I never liked the Tinker-Man plan, especially if you're not running a Time Walk.
GL with the deck!
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Team GWS
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Grand Inquisitor
Always the play, never the thing
Adepts
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Posts: 1476
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 10:06:03 pm » |
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despite this, I was bent on making a combo deck utilizing rituals and drains Cool. But why is this? Do you want to play with your good cards, do you like the style of combo control, do you think drain/ritual is particularly competitive right now? This will help steer the feedback. Actually, I just thought of Beseech the Queen and Lum Dul's Vault as a desperate replacement for Grim and Imperial. This is a good illustration of one of the pitfalls to avoid in T1 deck building: often times substitution of weaker cards is not as effective as changing strategies. In other words, if you don't have Lotus, Ancestral, and a host of other good restricted stuff, you may have to resign yourself to different options to remain competitive: 1) slow down your deck and play more control than combo 2) build a storm engine that doesn't rely on the U/B/artifact restricted engine (e.g. culling the weak, khobolds, manamorphose, etc) Recoup ...along with Deep Analysis is a rather slow, mana intensive card. If you're going this route, you may want to drop more rituals and add more hard counters to adopt a reactive position.
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There is not a single argument in your post. Just statements that have no meaning. - Guli
It's pretty awesome that I did that - Smmenen
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 10:10:34 pm » |
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Recoup ...along with Deep Analysis is a rather slow, mana intensive card. If you're going this route, you may want to drop more rituals and add more hard counters to adopt a reactive position. If he drops rituals and adds more hard counters wouldn't he be simply playing an inferior version of drain tendrils? Or a really poor gifts list? To be fair with the power he has available to him he may be better off trying to build Ad Nauseum minus a mox jet.
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?
"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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OmniStrife_101
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 10:46:53 pm » |
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I never liked FOF in the deck, but Gifts was alright. Given the lack of Grim tutors, I think playing Recoup + Gifts is a good idea.
Scroll is great in here. Definitely need to run 1.
I never liked the Tinker-Man plan, especially if you're not running a Time Walk.
GL with the deck!
Thanks Erik! The Tinker - Man plan is really a personal preference since it makes me comfortable having an alternative win condition. I am just weary about having my only copy of Tendrils of Agony being extirpated.  Sui black decks are somewhat rampant here in our meta..
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OmniStrife_101
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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2009, 02:04:59 pm » |
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After taking into consideration the comments I got, I came up with Intuition Tendrils v.2. I really think that given a little tweaking to the deck, it can be a very good competitor specially in the current meta.
Intuition Tendrils v.2
Lands ( 15 ) 1 Tolarian Academy 2 Flooded Strand 2 Polluted Delta 4 Island 1 Swamp 4 Underground Sea 1 Volcanic Island
Mana Accelerants ( 14 ) 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Pearl 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Mana Crypt 4 Dark Ritual 2 Cabal Ritual
Disruption/Defense ( 12 ) 2 Duress 2 Thoughtseize 4 Force of will 2 Mana Drain 1 Chain of Vapor 1 Rebuild
Tutors ( 8 ) 1 Recoup 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Mystical Tutor 3 Intuition 1 Gifts Ungiven 1 Merchant Scroll
Draw/Filter ( 5 ) 2 Deep Analysis 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Brainstorm 1 Ponder
Broken Stuff ( 3 ) 1 Necropotence 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 1 Yawgmoth's Will
Kill ( 3 ) 1 Tendrills of Agony 1 Tinker 1 Inkwell Leviathan/Dark Steel Collossus
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HuntedWumpus
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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2009, 12:01:29 pm » |
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Personally I have abandoned my ritual/drain builds for now, I believe that ANT or TPS has more of a competitive edge in the current environment. That aside, have you thought about splashing green for Fastbond/Regrowth/(Gush)? My rational here is that it gives you another fairly powerful set of tools since you are missing a few bombs due to lack of cards. I have found that I generally prefer the red splash to the green splash (in drain tendrils that is), however in your situation I think you could benefit from green.
If you are going to stay with a red splash I would consider dropping the tinker/Phatty for a Empty the Warrens, it free up a card slot. Both are fairly unimpressive without Timewalk.
I would run a lotus petal.
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If you haven't played "Hunt the Wumpus" then you can't really call yourself a gamer.
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OmniStrife_101
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2009, 01:14:20 pm » |
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Personally I have abandoned my ritual/drain builds for now, I believe that ANT or TPS has more of a competitive edge in the current environment. That aside, have you thought about splashing green for Fastbond/Regrowth/(Gush)? My rational here is that it gives you another fairly powerful set of tools since you are missing a few bombs due to lack of cards. I have found that I generally prefer the red splash to the green splash (in drain tendrils that is), however in your situation I think you could benefit from green.
If you are going to stay with a red splash I would consider dropping the tinker/Phatty for a Empty the Warrens, it free up a card slot. Both are fairly unimpressive without Timewalk.
I would run a lotus petal.
First of all, thanks to all your suggestions, it really helped me in tweaking the deck. I have been considering playing storm based decks especially IT for some time now, and have also been reading articles and postings here in the forums regarding ANT and TPS. I think, I still have to make a decision on which path I choose, which could only be answered by playtesting my deck of choice with various meta decks here. Personally, I would want to run Empty the Warrens if I am to stick with black, the thing is, Echoing Truth is being maindecked in decks here. That is also the reason why I opted to run Inkwell Leviathan over Dark Steel Collosus.
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dark burn
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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2009, 12:17:54 pm » |
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Definitely run a lotus petal in the list, it is a good replacement for mox jet.
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OmniStrife_101
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009, 08:58:15 pm » |
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Guys, I made some experiments with the deck:
Out: 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
In: 1 Wheel of Fortune
Initial playtesting with the deck: I usually find myself at the edge of my seat every time I try to combo out. The scenario was always "I have to win this turn" since effectively, this is my last turn. I am able to pull it out, thanks to the set ups I make before the combo finish ( Intuition for Dark Ritual etc etc). Recoup was key to winning some of those games. Even when my opponents have duress effects, they usually find cards like Intuiton, Gifts Ungiven, Yawgmoth's Will on my hand, which either way, I can find the right set up to win after a turn or two. I had playtested the deck against U/W Fish, U/B Mask Nought, FCG Goblins, B Mask Nought.
I was also thinking of cutting out 2 Deep Analysis in favor of 1 Fact or Fiction and 1 Mana Drain. I always found myself in a difficult situation when casting Deep Analysis. Since I usually Intuition for the kill components rather than card advantage so what happens is I usually don't have Deep Analysis in my graveyard and am having a hard time casting it in my main phase. With that, I thought, why not change it to Fact or Fiction which would provide card advantage, I can play on my opponents end turn, and will fill up my graveyard for enough for threshold. I would still have to test this change though.
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ErkBek
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Posts: 974
A strong play.
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009, 09:08:59 pm » |
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If you're playing Recoup, cutting Deep Analysis makes a lot of sense. The logic behind playing any flashback cards is to give you more flexible Intuitions.
I'm not sure if Academy should be in the deck or not. I eventually cut it even though I was running 10 artifact mana. If you do decide to play Academy, you should try a Sensei's Top over the FoF. Like I said earlier, I've never liked FoF in here, it's just a really big clunky spell that you're trying to cast that doesn't win on the spot.
Not sure about a 3rd Drain in here. 2 Drains are nice b/c they become really difficult to play around. I'd think in a highly competitive metagame another Duress would be better, but if you're getting to Drain lots of spells, then go with the 3rd!
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Team GWS
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OmniStrife_101
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009, 12:39:45 am » |
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If you're playing Recoup, cutting Deep Analysis makes a lot of sense. The logic behind playing any flashback cards is to give you more flexible Intuitions.
I'm not sure if Academy should be in the deck or not. I eventually cut it even though I was running 10 artifact mana. If you do decide to play Academy, you should try a Sensei's Top over the FoF. Like I said earlier, I've never liked FoF in here, it's just a really big clunky spell that you're trying to cast that doesn't win on the spot.
Not sure about a 3rd Drain in here. 2 Drains are nice b/c they become really difficult to play around. I'd think in a highly competitive metagame another Duress would be better, but if you're getting to Drain lots of spells, then go with the 3rd!
Thanks Erik! Will heavily test your suggestions. The reason why I wanted Fact or Fiction is due to the lack of Tutors in the deck ( I lack Imperial and Grim Tutor) So to compensate, I will try to run FoF and another Mana Drain ( although adding another duress effect really is an option as you suggested ) and test the overall synergy of the deck.
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Sam101
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2009, 11:15:36 pm » |
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Im happy that you are having success with the red splash!
I've just re-read the thread and a bunch of people suggested cutting tinker + man plan.
And I know you decided to keep it in your deck due to a meta game decision, but if you ever decide to remove it I would recommend playing burning wish as the second win condition/way to find tendrils or other helpful sorcery's.
I think the third drain and fact or fiction would be great additions for the two deep analysis.
Also, I (personally) would cut academy for a fifth fetch land.
Sam
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