Reprinting power

[honestabe]

http://strategy.channelfireball.com/videos/magic-tv-show-3/

Personally, I'd say yes as long as it was VERY limited and not t2 legal

Then again, this is coming from a guy with no power....

[Darkenslight]

That link's coming up with 'Your account has been suspended' for me.

[vassago]

I did not get to read the article, but I would be all for the reprinting of power.  Now, I know this is a pointless and meaningless issue since it will never happen, but I do not care if my cards decrease in value.  I would like to play type 1 with just about anybody and on the same power level.

[honestabe]

For those who can't use the link,

Luis-Scott Vargas and some other guy discuss the reprinting of power as a way to get more people into the almost non-existant format of sanctioned vintage.

eventually, they come to the conclusion that it be printed at the same rarity as a foil mythic rare.  Something along the lines of 1 per every 3-6 boxes, and that it automatically be t2, and extended illegal. 

Now, this MAY reduce the cost of power, but hypothetically, the rarity of the reprintings would be such that there wouldn't be that much of a cost drop, and also, if it did get more magic players into vintage, it would in theory drive the price right back up do to the increased demand.



I would also like to note that niether Force of Will nor Mana Drain are on the reserved list

[oneofchaos]

I would also like to note that niether Force of Will nor Mana Drain are on the reserved list

For wizards to finally reprint mana drain "A bus would have to crash into R&D".  Can you drive a bus?

[Lurker101]

They should just legalize collector's edition and international edition. That would be great and for Mana Drain I think that Rosewater's quote only applied to printing it in another set that would be standard legal. I could see Drain being in From the Vault:Exiled (really it should be and this is coming from someone who has drains). It would be great if they reprinted more vintage staples as foils for prizes or promos (think foil Bazaar, Workshop, Force of Will or Mana Crypt or Dual lands!!). Another option would be to reprint foil alternate art but vintage legal reprints of the power 9 and hand them out to the top 8 at the vintage world champs. That would be better than those dumb alt-art way oversized cards they hand out as prizes now. Imperial Seal, Grim Tutor, and Strategic Planning should also get reprinted with black borders. Those are all stupid-expensive cards and they could all go into a core set without injuring standard or extended. I also hope Imperial Seal at least gets treatment in FtV:Exiled too. All these things could lower the high price barrier the format holds and make it a lot more popular as well as make WotC some cash (maybe even enough to sponser more sanctioned events per year and hand out more foil prizes of vintage staples). The staple cards will always remain expensive as long as they don't reprint them too much.

[honestabe]

Lets face it.

Every year, there is less and less power, due to loss and accidental destruction.  Eventually, there will be literally no more power left unless wizards does something.  Right now, there approach is laughable.  What do they do to help vintage?  Make crappy restrictions, and that's about it. 

It's time vintage gets some love from WOTC and stops being the forgotten format. 

Honestly, if power was reprinted in very small, yet still relavant amounts, would it reall hurt the value of the cards?  I seriously doubt that a piece of power per every 5 boxes would harm the vaule.  And also, it has the added benefit of getting more people into vintage.  I'm willing to bet that if a die-hard legacy or Standard player cracked an ancestral recall, tha they would want to use it.  This would create a raise in demand, which would raise the value of the cards even more.  Think of it as a vintage stimulus package.

[Diakonov]

Yes, but remember: Wizards in all likelihood doesn't want us to play Vintage.  Or, at least, they don't want their Standard players to start picking it up.  Generally speaking, the average Vintage player gives a lot less back to the company when compared to the average Standard player. 

I suppose you could argue that it might cause Vintage players to want to draft more often.

[TheRogue]

Lets face it.

  I'm willing to bet that if a die-hard legacy or Standard player cracked an ancestral recall, tha they would want to use it.  This would create a raise in demand, which would raise the value of the cards even more.  Think of it as a vintage stimulus package.

i know cut most of you post out but i couldn't agree more.

it would definitly have a lasting impact on the current group of players who have never had a vintage experience if reprints were to rekindle interest in the format.

on the side its been my impression some power 9 is locked up in stores that only server a type 2 community and would rather sell it thru there glass case than ebay. thought i'm sure many would disagree with that observation.

[honestabe]

Yes, but remember: Wizards in all likelihood doesn't want us to play Vintage.  Or, at least, they don't want their Standard players to start picking it up.  Generally speaking, the average Vintage player gives a lot less back to the company when compared to the average Standard player. 

I suppose you could argue that it might cause Vintage players to want to draft more often.

Despite primarily being a vintage player, i draft all the time.  And honestly, who wouldn't, if you knew you had a chance to crack power.  Jesus, I'd draft every day

Wizards' sales would skyrocket, and so would the general population's interest in vintage.  It's a win-win, so why not do it?

[Diakonov]

Yes, but remember: Wizards in all likelihood doesn't want us to play Vintage.  Or, at least, they don't want their Standard players to start picking it up.  Generally speaking, the average Vintage player gives a lot less back to the company when compared to the average Standard player. 

I suppose you could argue that it might cause Vintage players to want to draft more often.

Despite primarily being a vintage player, i draft all the time.  And honestly, who wouldn't, if you knew you had a chance to crack power.  Jesus, I'd draft every day

Wizards' sales would skyrocket, and so would the general population's interest in vintage.  It's a win-win, so why not do it?

It's not quite as simple as that.  They do run the risk of having their Standard players switch to Vintage, which means less sales for them since those players need to purchase older cards.

There's also the larger issue of the Reserved List, which I'll quote someone from the thread attached to the video:

Reprinting power is a bad idea for a plethora of reasons. If the goal is to promote more growth in the Vintage market, they need to print cards that are relevant to these markets. This isn’t easy, because they need to print cards whose impact can at least jiggle the Vintage metagame. A card hasn’t done that in any great capacity since Chalice. This is the positive way to impact Vintage.

But they can’t do it forever. Vintage is unfortunately a finite-engine system. You cannot keep increasing the power of cards, even in synergy, to impact Vintage. The resistance to impact is evidenced in how cards like Force of Will balance the game: even if you think you can craft a game state whereby you win first turn, a player may still interact with that game state and prevent the loss chiefly on the back of FoW.

I will also disclaim and say that I have beta power. I’ve had to endure lots of ridicule over my decisions from people who do not see the value in the investment. While I like playing the cards, I bought them as an investment hinged on WOTC’s reprint policy, which is a solemn oath by this company to not reprint these cards specifically to preserve their value.

In summary, it’s a bad idea for them to print Power even if what they want to do is well-intentioned. And even if they had that lapse in judgment, they can never, ever, ever reprint these cards because they would not risk their word being worth nothing. That would shatter consumer confidence, and even if they have a short-term gain, they would be liars to the community. Not to mention liable to civil suits for each and every loss a collector takes because of said reprint.

J

[lawnboy]

In summary, it’s a bad idea for them to print Power even if what they want to do is well-intentioned. And even if they had that lapse in judgment, they can never, ever, ever reprint these cards because they would not risk their word being worth nothing. That would shatter consumer confidence, and even if they have a short-term gain, they would be liars to the community. Not to mention liable to civil suits for each and every loss a collector takes because of said reprint.

J

The collectibility issue is huge here -- as tournament players, it's sometimes easy for us to forget that a non-negligible part of Wizards's M:TG market share is due to individuals who gravitate most to the "Collectible" aspect of Collectible Card Games. While Wizards doesn't really care about maintaining the secondary market price of Power 9 cards per se, if they were to reprint these cards it would pretty much invalidate any claims that they have made or could make about Magic cards as collectible items, rather than simply vehicles for gameplay. This would be a huge blow to the identity of Magic as we know it.

It's just not going to happen. And if it did, I would see it as a sign of a company/franchise in its final death throes.

[oneofchaos]

Yes, but remember: Wizards in all likelihood doesn't want us to play Vintage.  Or, at least, they don't want their Standard players to start picking it up.  Generally speaking, the average Vintage player gives a lot less back to the company when compared to the average Standard player. 

I suppose you could argue that it might cause Vintage players to want to draft more often.

What is the most profitable format for wizards?  I'm not sure on the math but sealed seems to be the ticket?

[Matt]

Yes, but remember: Wizards in all likelihood doesn't want us to play Vintage.  Or, at least, they don't want their Standard players to start picking it up.  Generally speaking, the average Vintage player gives a lot less back to the company when compared to the average Standard player. 

I suppose you could argue that it might cause Vintage players to want to draft more often.

What is the most profitable format for wizards?  I'm not sure on the math but sealed seems to be the ticket?

On a per-event basis, sealed. But the real answer is draft: sealed sells 6 packs/person, while draft only sells 3, but drafts happen dozens of times more often than sealed. Around here, there's at least 5 scheduled drafts per week, every week, while sealed is only ever played at release events. Online I'm sure it's even more skewed.

[zeus-online]

Can't you guys just agree on "limited" ? just to make things easier.

[Royal Ass.]

I think the best way to deal with this whole situation would be for Wizards to simply allow proxies in sanctioned tournaments - except with some restrictions.
Say for instance they allowed 10 proxies, except you could only proxy cards printed before say 4 edition.   This would prevent people from being lazy and proxing new chase rares that Wizards makes money on and it would protect most of the secondary market. 

 With proxying there is the issue of uniformity and legibility in proxy cards.  Wizards could sell packs of blank cards with normal backs and have guidelines for making the proxy tournament legal such as printing the oracle text clearly on the blank side of the card etc.  They could mandate that you have to use their blank proxy templates as well.  They could even leave a box on the template for people to draw their own pictures.

I think this scheme would solve several problems:
- It would decrease the extreme cost of entry into Type 1 while still forcing players to acquire many old cards and even a few power cards (b/c 10 isn't enough when you consider drains, shops etc.)
- While still leaving a barrier to enter Type 1 they wont be destroying their Type 2 and Extended player base which they make the most money off.
- Since no power is being repented collectors are happy.
- This legitimizes all the un- sanctioned proxy metagames across the US and allows them to essentially continue with what they were doing except in a sanctioned format with official ratings.

[DPCyric]

Generally speaking, the average Vintage player gives a lot less back to the company when compared to the average Standard player. 

Then why not make reprint power part of the Player Rewards program? It encourages Vintage players to play more sanctioned events, doesn't conflict with the reserve list since they are promos and will also drive up interest in the program with people who do not play Vintage since it gives them valuable cards to sell.

[Apollyon]

I think the best way to deal with this whole situation would be for Wizards to simply allow proxies in sanctioned tournaments - except with some restrictions.
Say for instance they allowed 10 proxies, except you could only proxy cards printed before say 4 edition.   This would prevent people from being lazy and proxing new chase rares that Wizards makes money on and it would protect most of the secondary market. 

 With proxying there is the issue of uniformity and legibility in proxy cards.  Wizards could sell packs of blank cards with normal backs and have guidelines for making the proxy tournament legal such as printing the oracle text clearly on the blank side of the card etc.  They could mandate that you have to use their blank proxy templates as well.  They could even leave a box on the template for people to draw their own pictures.

I think this scheme would solve several problems:
- It would decrease the extreme cost of entry into Type 1 while still forcing players to acquire many old cards and even a few power cards (b/c 10 isn't enough when you consider drains, shops etc.)
- While still leaving a barrier to enter Type 1 they wont be destroying their Type 2 and Extended player base which they make the most money off.
- Since no power is being repented collectors are happy.
- This legitimizes all the un- sanctioned proxy metagames across the US and allows them to essentially continue with what they were doing except in a sanctioned format with official ratings.

There's a fairly significant legal problem with that. Wizards can legalize proxies. But that makes counterfeiting harder to prosecute, simply because they are saying "you can write Mox Emerald on an Island with a Sharpie". So some random guy can start printing out pretty good Moxes at home and sell them as real, and Wizards now has to work really hard to shut that guy down, because he can come back with "they are proxies".

Basically, this is like trying to clean off someone spilling some milk on the kitchen table by spraying the kitchen down with pressurized sulfuric acid. Sure, it will get clean. But it's not even close to worth it.