Mono-black (sui and control)

[Djinn]

Haven't quite sunk serious cash into vintage yet, which is why I'm playing mono black with some proxies.  Here is my deck so far.

Lands:
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Lake of the Dead
4 Wasteland (Proxies)
1 Strip Mine
1 Bloodstained Mire (trying to get 4-5 more fetchlands)
14 Swamps

Creatures
3 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dark Confidant

Sorceries
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Thoughtseize (proxies)
3 Extirpate (1 proxy)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tendrils of Agony

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Diabolic Edict

Artifacts
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet (proxy)
1 Black Lotus (proxy)

Only 59 cards

9 proxies total.  Used to play with Necropotence but it seemed as if I didn't draw it on the first turn it was useless.  Also used to run Yawgmoth's Bargain except if I could hard cast it I usually already lost.  I would like to include some more drawing/discarding but I don't know what to replace.  I was thinking of running Cabal Therapy, but it doesn't really have a place, and can't take advantage of the flashback.  I need to squeeze 3-4 Null Rods in somewhere as well, but do not know what to replace.  Lastly I'd like to put Night's Whisper in there for some more drawing.

Current sideboard is
3x Phyrexian War Beast
1x Mind Twist
4x Engineered Plague
2x Spinning Darkness
2x Contagion
1x Dystopia
2x Mishra's Factory

Thanks in advance for reading.

[smasher]

I'd increase the thoughtseize count to 4 before considering cabal therapy

Thawing glaciers is a relic of the past. Fetchlands have replaced its usefulness. Glaciers is also slow at what it does. Considering you think necro beyond turn 1 is too slow and playing bargain when you have mana to do so is too slow then you need to look at Thawing glaciers the same way.

Increasing diabolic edict would be a good idea since you don't really have an answer to tinkered robots other than trying to race them.

Lake of the dead seems pretty bad unless your plan is to mana ramp with it the turn you tendrils for the win otherwise it is going to eat a wasteland.

I'm a fan of extirpate maindeck but usually just one as a target to tutor up. Going down to one of these would make room for a couple null rods. I like 4 null rods but if all you can do is put the 3rd one in for the 60th card it's better than nothing.

Sol ring doesn't look very good in this deck. I think Lotus petal would be better than the sol ring in here.

6-8 fetchlands would be great for this deck.

Not sure what your metagame looks like but your sideboard looks bad for what I would expect to run into.

Demonic consultation could be very good for you with so many 3 and 4 ofs. Turn one play land, ritual, consult for dark confidant seems decent if you dont have a duress effect to play.

Deck seems light on threats. Getting some bayous to go along with the fetches you plan to get lets you spash in tarmogoyfs and a more versatile sideboard.

Hymn to tourach isn't really needed with 8 duress/thoughtseize since choosing the best card is better than hitting a couple random cards. You already have hypnotic specter in the deck for random discard.

Crucible of worlds as a one of tutor target perhaps.

Darkblast is a really nice card to sideboard

Hope this helps. It's about all I can do without knowing what decks you expect to face.

[Djinn]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

Very interesting point about the tarmogoyf, and I agree on the glaciers and such - Its good to feed lake of the dead, but I'm trying to get more fetchlands.

I am skeptical about sol ring as well but it can help pump negators out and yawgmoth's will and such.  If i replace it I will replace it with a chrome mox or two I think.

I always pack 3 war beasts to swap out the negators for.  I pack engineered plague for elves (a very serious deck).  Mind Twist I don't main deck because of FoW/Mana Drain/Misdirection.  I would swap it in if I am not playing control.  I put the Mishra's in case the wastelands can't hit much.  Besides that I don't have a compelling argument for the rest of the cards.

As far as my meta-I play every couple weeks in tournaments.  I play a lot of Tezz and its variants, elves, and a blue/green deck with lorescale coatl, thats all I can really remember - I took a few year hiatus from magic and now I'm getting back into it.  Thanks for your help.

[ristoman]

I remember playing Suicide Black for a long time in both Legacy and T1 some years ago. Once you get the hang of it you can get some pretty nasty stuff going. Its main advantage is that it keeps any form of Blue Control at bay effectively.

A good start is the old primer you can find here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=11797.0
It is a bit outdated maybe, but it still makes a lot of good basic points about the deck philosophy, what to play, what not to play etc. I'll try not to go over anything that's in there, so read it and learn it inside out.

By definition, with Sui Black you're throwing everything and their brother at your opponent, causing you to run out of cards in hand quickly. From what I see you don't have any of the old mana-funnel staples like Masticore and Nantuko Shade. The former nowadays may not be as effective besides low cost to P/T ratio and the occasional ping, but the latter is key. It'll win you many a games if you manage to keep your opponent with little to nothing in play, which is the basic MO of this deck.

As for single cards, I pretty much agree with everything smasher said, with a strong emphasis on 3x Null Rod and no Sol Ring, cutting the Lakes and Glaciers, and upping the fetches. I disagree, however, when he suggests cutting Hymn. I'd rather cut Duress for Seize than run both and not Hymn. Starting with Ritual -> Duress/Seize -> Hymn is way too good to pass up, I've had people scoop on Turn 1 thanks to that play. Another card you should strongly consider is Contagion. I'd play that any day over Edicts. Being able to target AND being a pitch spell make it really, really good. Did I mention it also gives you TWO counters to tack on?

I'm not sure what you're trying to do with a singleton Tendrils, you don't have much of a Storm shell in there. I'd much rather cut that for the fourth Negator which you desperately need.
Finally, I've always had mixed feelings about Confidant in Sui Black. The card is great, no doubt, but it's fragile and a mild threat compared to everything else you're playing. This deck wants to lay the beatdown from the get-go. I know it's a personal choice but I'd play Flesh Reaver before D'Conf. Compare:

Ritual -> Duress/Seize -> Confidant
with
Ritual -> Duress/Seize -> Flesh Reaver

If your meta is split between Tezz and Elves, then I'd say run one main and side in the other accordingly... But I'd run Reaver main. One thing I'm not sure about is if under the new rules you can win even if the loss of life would bring you to 0. If you can't, then I guess Reaver lost a whole lot of appeal and you shouldn't listen to my advice. But honestly, do not underestimate the Reaver. It's some nasty stuff.

[Djinn]

Thanks for the reply.  That article was a good read.

The confidants are necessary as there is no draw engine otherwise, and with him you draw 2 cards per turn which is crazy good.  I have 1 nantuko and I know i need more threats on the board but I just don't know which spells to take out - they all seem necessary.  I am absolutly packing 4 hymns - they are so good.  I have flesh reavers that I'd like to experiment with I just don't have the opportunity to play as much as I'd like.

The tendrils is kinda random but it can help gain ground against any aggro decks and such.  Paired with yawgmoth's will and dark rituals the storm count gets high really fast.  It gives another spin to the deck - which I like.  As of right now were looking at -1 Thawing Glaciers -1 Lake of the Dead -1 Extirpate +4 Null rods puts me at 60 cards.  At this point I need to add more creatures.  What I really need to do is playtest with the Flesh Reaver.  Any other thoughts on what to add for win conditions?

[timp]

another thing you could get involved with is
4x Ill-Gotten Gains
4x Dream Salvage

[Djinn]

another thing you could get involved with is
4x Ill-Gotten Gains
4x Dream Salvage

I really like dream salvage - first turn ritual - hymn - salvage or something along the lines looks really nice.  What would you take out to include? And what would you add for some more threats on the table?

[miss_bun]

Here's a recent-ish list I played for a while that worked out pretty well.  It has some weird matchups, but it's nicebecause it's straightforward while having alternate game plans and a mini toolbox.

artifacts ~9

1x black lotus
3x chrome mox
1x mox jet
1x null rod
1x pithing needle
1x sol ring
1x trinisphere

creatures ~8

4x dark confidant
3x phyrexian negator
3x tombstalker

enchantments ~5

4x leyline of the void
1x necropotence

instants ~6

1x cabal ritual
4x dark ritual
1x vampiric tutor

lands ~18

3x bloodstained mire
3x polluted delta
1x strip mine
7x swamp
4x wasteland

sorceries ~12

1x demonic tutor
4x duress
3x ill-gotten gains
1x iimperial seal
1x tendrils of agony
1x thoughtseize
1x yawgmoth's will

[reaperbong]

here's what i've been playing-

4x Bitterblossom
3x Tombstalker
4x Night's Whisper
4x Dark Ritual

4x Thoughtseize
4x Duress
4x Null Rod
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Wasteland
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Strip Mine
1x Mind Twist

1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Demonic Consultation
1x Tendrils of Agony

1x Black Lotus - or Mox Jet or Lotus Petal whatever you have
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
13x Swamp

Sideboard-

4x Leyline of the Void
4x Gate to Phyrexia
1x Tendrils of Agony
2x Diabolic Edict
1x Extirpate
1x Bad Moon
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Yixlid Jailer



It still holds very close to the Suicide 2009 buid, i really like Bitterblossom, especially better then Negators, in multiples they are the nuts. Also it's important to support and enable Gate to Phyrexia i think, Null Rod can hold them off a turn or two but the opponent will eventually find a bounce spell, Gate to Phyrexia can sweep the opponents boards late game. I usually sub in 4 for the Chalices or do a 2-2 split keeping two.

I dropped Dark Confidant for Night's Whisper to help fuel Tombstalker and Tendrils, it's been working well. Dark Confidant is just too slow i think for suicide because you burn through your hand so fast and passing a turn or two to get card acceleration from Confidant is risky. I play my 4 Confidants in Tezzeret now and it's much more suitable.

Demonic Consultation is the most powerful card in the deck i think, with so many four ofs it's a 1 black mana solution to most every situation. Mind Twist is my favorite personal addition in this deck, it's a counter or die type of bomb. this deck builds a lot of mana with pretty much a land drop every turn, a resolved Mind Twist can be devastating in both late game and with a dark ritual plus just 2 or 3 lands can be a game winner early on.

i would love to play Cabal Therapy in this deck on top of 8x Duress effects, they have great synergy with Bitterblossom as well.
 

[timp]

another thing you could get involved with is
4x Ill-Gotten Gains
4x Dream Salvage

I really like dream salvage - first turn ritual - hymn - salvage or something along the lines looks really nice.  What would you take out to include? And what would you add for some more threats on the table?

as mentioned before another color helps increase the flexibility of a deck
no color can answer everything easily in its own color

green gets anti artifact and stuff like goyfs
red gets red elemental blast/pyroblast and moon effects or even burn
blue for counters and draw
white gets ya well umm random jazz

in keeping with your original deck mono style i would take out
2 extirpates if not 3
1 sol ring
1 tendrils
1 glacier
you have 1 free space
maybe some swamps (i dont know how ur deck plays out land but 14 seems high)

sry im not more help i made the mistake of being up late and surfing the web

[miss_bun]

I would cut off my right boob before I would remove sol ring from almost any deck!  It's so good.  Better than a mox in some decks.

[reaperbong]

yea it's even better now after the recent changes. i may add one into my deck

[Djinn]

Thanks for all the replies.  This mono black deck is just what I am playing before I can assemble something better.  I actually plan on playing Tezz, I have a wealth of blue cards and minus the power 8 and some mana drains, I own the rest of the cards.  So I am playing mono black while I put together a better mana base for a U/B deck and in the mean time and I'm trying to be competitive.

[yankeedave]

Hey Guys

Its the British Nationals this weekend and on Friday afternoon we have the Vintage Side event. I came across this thread and thought I would post my ideas. I have tried to port across the Legacy deck Eva Green. This is what I am working on and would love some feedback:

Vintage Eva Green (unpowered)

Creatures:

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant

Spells:

4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Dark Ritual

4 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void

4 Diabolic Edict
3 Extirpate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmouth's Will

3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
3 Bayou
6 Swamp

Sideboard
1 Gaea's Blessing
3 Krosan Grip
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle

While I really love Tombstalker in the deck, I have no draw engine, so I had a choice to make. Draw engine or hard beats. With the mana curve of the deck, Bob seems like a solid choice, and in testing, I have been happy the result, as with 12 discard effects, I am constantly on top of my opponent's game.

Vintage doesn't run many creatures and the vast majority seem to be Tinker---->Inkwell Leviathan so Edict seemed the best option.

I like the MD Chalices and Null Rods. They are solid against a lot of the decks these days and help shut down Tezzerett /Time Vault combo. I can also bring in the Pithing Needles if I am too worried.

I am a little bothered that I don't have a sweeper, but what do I take out of the SB for Deeds or EE?

The SB has changed slightly to allow for the poor Painter Grindstone match and the Goblins matchup. I am not sure about the Pithing Needles as they help the Grindstone matchup, but will the plagues be enough against random aggro that always appears?


Dave

[Djinn]

Newest Idea:

Lands
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
15 Swamp

Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Negator

Instants
4 Dark Ritual
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Wil
1 Hymn to Tourach (I had one space left...)

Enchantments
1 Necropotence

Tribal Enchantments
4 Bitterblossom

Artifacts
4 Null Rod
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Lotus Petal