trying to get back into vintage

[TheRogue]

Hi i've been unable to play vintage for a while, and in its place i played legacy which has tainted my thinking some what. I have a tournament coming up and i wanted to try and bring a fast aggro legacy deck into this tournament. But what it hinges on is the idea that vintage decks can be troubled by a first turn large creature. (something to the effect how turn 1 phyrexian negator could decide games some times. least back when negator was awesome.)

Last vintage tournament i played at combo decks using time vault and voltic key were very dominate. I kinda expect the same at this next tournament and i think these decks might be troubled by turn 1 large creatures if there supported with enough disruption. I want to know if decks running for such a theme are still compeditive in vintage? (i'm not using phyrexian negator, it just examplifies what i'm trying to convey best.)

[scifiantihero]

Well, bug fish plays a ton of disruption (duress, null rod, counterspells) then finishes up with a big 'ole tarmogoyf.  Might want to check that sort of list out, since it has proven to be pretty effective against vault/key strategies.  Might be able to adapt the general idea to whatever this secret deck of yours is!

 

[TheRogue]

its not that its a crazy secret but its basically a legacy stompy deck. if that illustrates my plot better. They're not as well supported as fish but they do have disrupting support to back up the big critters they drop. besides Dk i think several control decks I've seen in the vintage format leave themselves wide open, expecting the games to end quickly.

the deck uses chalice of the void, sphere of resistance and null rod as its main means of creature support. chalice is the main work horse in legacy but in vintage its best counter setting i'm not sure of yet. legacy u just go chalice 1 to stop swords and various other 1 cost removal, then rely on anything from equipment to force of will to catch any other removal. In vintage i'm not sure what the best setting is as for 0 stops the p9. however you packing 1 mana removal as well. so going chalice 0 for a large slow down in first second turn isn't appearing to be the most optimal. chalice 1 looks a little more appealing as it stops swords and a few other cards but not as much as in legacy. Thats one of the more complicated issues that i'm uncertain of in my deck.

[islanderboi10]

Sounds like you want a deck like Mono Red Shop Aggro.
MRSA is a decent deck, it recently split in the finals of a tournament here in WA.
The deck puts a fast clock on the board, with disruption.
I'd check out that deck.

[CowWithHat]

A list will really help facilitate comments on the strategy.  The number you put chalice at is definitely a function of your curve, what you are playing against, what turn it is, and the mana base you are working with.  Vintage has a decent allegory to legacy stompy in Christmas beats.  Its a red/green deck based on killing with creatures and disrupting with null rod or chalice, gorilla shaman, magus of the moon, and strong artifact removal from magic's best hate card colors. 

If you want to talk about a new strategy or a new deck that plays a prominent Vintage strategy differently, maybe you should post a thread for your own list.  This will help the community be able to comment in a more meaningful way.  If all you want is a deck that is strong against vault/key (which is still prominent but not as completely dominant as a few months ago) try looking up a list for christmas beats or fish.

[TheRogue]

I'm trying to bring in Dragon stompy. I have tried this at a pervious tournament. I didn't fare so well.

this was my build. (I kicked myself mid tournament as i forgot null rod)

4 tauren mauler
4 sting scourger
3 arc slogger
4 rakdos pit dragon
4 magus of the moon
2 gathan raiders
3 simian spirit guide

4 chalice of the void
3 thorn of amnethyst
1 trinisphere
2 sword of fire and ice
2 jitte
1 mox ruby
1 black lotus

3 seething song

2 blood moon

10 mountain
4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors

My thinking with mauler was with all the moxes if i go first hes gunna get big real fast.

Sting scourger was for Colossus

I'm not sure if Bloodmoon effects can still have a large impact on vintage but i figure it was worth including.

As in Legacy a first turn arc slogger can practically win the game so i kept him in.

Pit dragon and raiders seem good to keep in.

The only thing needing replaced was trinisphere. With it i'm sure the deck would of been golden if it would resolve. (despite being restricted.) So i opted for thorn of amnithyst thinking it would hurt opponents more than me. In some ways that is true.

The deck suffers from (and did) the same problems it has in legacy, like lack of card draw and if your main beater you drop is removed, you run out of gas real fast so to speak.

I haven't vested much though into mox monkey as he costs one and i think him to be cut out by chalice 1, thus a dead draw. Null rod seems a better more rounded inclusion.

One of the hard match ups is Oath, I actaully mulled to 4 looking for blood moon to as my only available answer, If anyone has a better answer for a all red deck to use i'm all ears.

But thats what I've been alluding to in my posts. It fits the idea I refer to of Dropping a large creature to beat with, then supporting it with disruption. It seems strong to me but If its going to actaully achieve any worthwhile results i need input from people who have been more active in vintage than I have in the last year.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

this thread belongs to the vintage improvement forum i think.

[Mr. Scragglesworthington]

I'm not sure if Bloodmoon effects can still have a large impact on vintage but i figure it was worth including.

The presence of nonbasics in the field seems quite high to me, so much so that we are seeing something of a backlash against them in the form of people playing Back to Basics again, etc.

I think Moon effects are quite good ATM.