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Author Topic: Chalice and Thorn  (Read 1826 times)
Mr. Fantastic
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« on: October 20, 2009, 10:05:34 pm »

A Chalice of the Void is in play with one charge counter on it as well as a Thorn of Amethyst (or Sphere of Resistance).

If I pay 2 for a Sol Ring, is the ring countered by Chalice or does it count as something that costs 2?  Also, do time stamps matter?

Also, with Thorn/Sphere in play, do you have to pay an extra one mana in addition to alternative casting costs, i.e., Daze, FoW, Dread Return's flashback?

« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 10:09:09 pm by Mr. Fantastic » Logged

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theLastGnu
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2009, 10:47:58 pm »

Quote from: Chalice of the Void
Chalice of the Void enters the battlefield with X charge counters on it.
Whenever a player casts a spell with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Chalice of the Void, counter that spell.
Quote
If I pay 2 for a Sol Ring, is the ring countered by Chalice or does it count as something that costs 2?  Also, do time stamps matter?
The ring is not countered, as the converted mana cost of the sol ring is still {1}
Quote from: Comprehensive Rules 202.4
Any additional cost listed in an object's rules text or imposed by an effect isn't part of the mana cost. (See rule 601, "Casting Spells.") Such costs are paid at the same time as the spell's other costs.


Quote
Also, with Thorn/Sphere in play, do you have to pay an extra one mana in addition to alternative casting costs, i.e., Daze, FoW, Dread Return's flashback?
Yes
Quote from: Comprehensive Rules 601.2e
The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost (as determined in rule 601.2b), plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions. If the mana component of the total cost is reduced to nothing by cost reduction effects, it is considered to be {0}. It can't be reduced to less than {0}. Once the total cost is determined, any effects that directly affect the total cost are applied. Then the resulting total cost becomes "locked in." If effects would change the total cost after this time, they have no effect.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 11:07:27 pm by theLastGnu » Logged
Iron_Chef
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« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 12:27:19 am »

While the answer given shows the relevant rules, i think he misread your post.

A Chalice of the Void with one charge counter will counter Sol Ring regardless of how much extra you have to pay for it, since its converted mana cost is 1.

Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance, and Trinisphere all affect cards that are played using alternate ways of casting them (FoW, Daze, etc).

One more tidbit that might be useful in the future; Trinisphere is applied last, after any and all other cost increasers and reducers.

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Mr. Fantastic
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« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 11:10:28 pm »

Cool, thanks for the responses guys.
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"Who needs the sun when you've got me around?"
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