dshin
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« on: December 31, 2009, 04:10:17 pm » |
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Guarding of the Grave  Instant Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can’t play spells or activated abilities that aren’t mana abilities.)Flashback (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.) Target player sacrifices 2 life for each spell he or she cast from his or her graveyard this turn. I feel like flashback and split second are needed to combat Yawgmoth's Will -> Duress or Yawgmoth's Will -> Force of Will.
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Anusien
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2010, 10:19:23 am » |
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Green direct damage for interacting with the graveyard seems terribly out of flavor.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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Darkenslight
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2010, 12:30:03 pm » |
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Green direct damage for interacting with the graveyard seems terribly out of flavor.
Maybe; it seems like it's very much in flavour for punishing the use of the graveyard, which would be Green and Black's overlapping areas (see cards like Ground Seal for reference.) Also, I like the flavour of Green recoiling at the recasting of already used spells. I dislike the Split Second on the card. Moreover , it should read 'loses' instead of 'sacrifices'.
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Anusien
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2010, 12:58:15 pm » |
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You can count on one hand the number of spells green has that can burn out players (this might even be counting Hurricane variants, but probably not).
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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jro
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 08:03:59 pm » |
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This card seems so narrow it may as well say "Target player that cast Yawgmoth's Will is a jerk."
There's so many seemingly arbitrary decisions involved in the design of this card. Why does it only affect cast spells, and not lands played? Why does it do 2 life per spell? Why not 1, or 3? Why is it loss of life and not damage? Giving it Flashback to avoid counters and discard also makes it read "Target player loses 4 life for each spell etc." with a cost of GG. Is that part of the design? It seems to add even more variance to a card that is already either boom or bust. Adding Split Second to avoid counters is lazy. Yawgmoth's Will with Force of Will backup should be broken. Moreover, it's entirely possible for a Yawgmoth's Will player to simply play through this card if their life total is high enough.
It seems to me that the best hate tends to be permanent-based, proactive (in the sense that they can be played before your opponent's brokenness), and cheap. Null Rod, Leyline of the Void, Sphere of Resistance / Thorn of Amethyst / Trinisphere, Pithing Needle, the various "hate bears" like Ethersworn Canonist and many other quality hate cards fit this description. It's worth nothing that none of those cards have built-in protection like Split Second or Shroud. It's okay for the Yawgmoth's Will player to draw their answer and bounce your hate card. But the hate should be something they have to deal with.
Here's a generic graveyard hate card that pre-emptively stops Yawgmoth's Will and many other graveyard strategies that I think seems at home in green:
Nonsucky Ground Seal G Enchantment If a card would be put from a graveyard to anywhere, exile it instead.
There might be some rules negotiating necessary to make this work right, but it makes casting Yawgmoth's Will pretty fruitless.
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Wagner
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 10:27:38 pm » |
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Nonsucky Ground Seal G Enchantment If a card would be put from a graveyard to anywhere, exile it instead. That's basically Planar Void here. Green isn't big on graveyard removing, it usully just shuffles it. Which would also be kind of ok, but then you have Wheel of Sun and Moon. How about simply. G Enchantment Shroud Cards in graveyards can't be played. It basically only stops Y. Will, Crucible and flashback. It's about as narrow as Ground Seal, and to make it less sucky/good, you can just add a colorless mana and make it a cantrip like Ground Seal. Green likes Shroud, althought it's not absoluely necessary on this.
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jro
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 11:58:02 pm » |
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That's basically Planar Void here. Green isn't big on graveyard removing, it usully just shuffles it. It's not Planar Void at all. Planar Void says "Things that go to the graveyard get exiled." This says "Things that leave the graveyard get exiled." The flavor is somewhat like Ground Seal-- the dead stay dead. The flavor of Planar Void is more "the dead are destroyed forever". Green likes Shroud, althought it's not absoluely necessary on this. Is the threat of the opponent bouncing this and then going off really so grave that it must have Shroud?
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Wagner
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« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2010, 10:06:21 am » |
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That's basically Planar Void here. Green isn't big on graveyard removing, it usully just shuffles it. It's not Planar Void at all. Planar Void says "Things that go to the graveyard get exiled." This says "Things that leave the graveyard get exiled." The flavor is somewhat like Ground Seal-- the dead stay dead. The flavor of Planar Void is more "the dead are destroyed forever". Green likes Shroud, althought it's not absoluely necessary on this. Is the threat of the opponent bouncing this and then going off really so grave that it must have Shroud? My bad, misread it. In that case that would work. Althought it comes out a little too strong I think. Maybe just replacing "put" with "played" since your version is basically Planar Void on crack, except for the few Threshold cards and Tarmogoyf. It not only kills Y. Will but also Dredge, Welder and all reanimation spells. A little too good for 1 mana.
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Darkenslight
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2010, 06:15:41 pm » |
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How about this wording/design: From Grove to Void  Enchantment If a card would be played or cast from a graveyard, exile it instead. That doesn't hit elements that allow you to put things from the graveyard to the field, such as Unearth.
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Anusien
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2010, 04:36:25 pm » |
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Why not "Players can't cast spells from the graveyard"?
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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Killane
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Posts: 799
I am become Death, the destroyer of Worlds
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2010, 04:56:21 pm » |
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That's basically Planar Void here. Green isn't big on graveyard removing, it usully just shuffles it. It's not Planar Void at all. Planar Void says "Things that go to the graveyard get exiled." This says "Things that leave the graveyard get exiled." The flavor is somewhat like Ground Seal-- the dead stay dead. The flavor of Planar Void is more "the dead are destroyed forever". Green likes Shroud, althought it's not absoluely necessary on this. Is the threat of the opponent bouncing this and then going off really so grave that it must have Shroud? My bad, misread it. In that case that would work. Althought it comes out a little too strong I think. Maybe just replacing "put" with "played" since your version is basically Planar Void on crack, except for the few Threshold cards and Tarmogoyf. It not only kills Y. Will but also Dredge, Welder and all reanimation spells. A little too good for 1 mana. why is this Planar void on crack? it's stronger in some ways but doesn't hit Threshold, and it's easier to recover form once it itself is removed, since everythign that's gone into the yard is still there instead of sitting in the exiled zone. Void is better Turn 1, thsi is better late game. I think it's balanced.
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