No-Proxy Vintage Lists

[Vinceisg0d]

Hi there,

Tournament soon and we have a no-proxy vintage format coming up. Our store is power-less. I doubt anyone will have them. I doubt everyone will even have duals.  But I'm not sure what to make. I presume the meta will be;

ComboElves
1-2 Food Chain Goblins
1-2 Fish
1 Dark Depths
X A bunch of random stuff that will be unpredictable and probably not very good

What would you build for this situation? I originally figured I would be playing Elves, this list:

// Lands
4  Wooded Foothills
4  Windswept Heath
5  Forest

// Creatures
1  Regal Force
2  Elvish Spirit Guide
1  Viridian Shaman
4  Quirion Ranger
2  Elvish Visionary
4  Wirewood Symbiote
4  Nettle Sentinel
4 [EVG] Llanowar Elves
4  Heritage Druid
4  Fyndhorn Elves
4  Birchlore Rangers

// Spells
4  Summoner's Pact
1  Grapeshot
4  Glimpse of Nature
4  Skullclamp

Unfortunately, everyone found out that I and another planned on playing it, which means it will probably be hated on pretty harshly. So, I am at a loss of what to play.

Here is a list of the most notable cards I have that may help my choice on what to play:

Duals, most of them minus Plateau
All fetches
Library of Alexandria
4 Forces
3 Mana Drains
3 LEDs
4 Mox Diamonds
Everything in Extended

Any opinions? Sorry if this post is scatter-brained.

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

You could consider playing Oath--it beats up on creature decks, which seem to comprise most of your meta, and would be more difficult to hate out than Elves.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Most notably, no Moxen -> Tinker blows.  You probably want triple Dragon (hellkite, hellkite, karrthus) Oath.  I'd also maindeck Balance and Pernicious Deed.  Since you have no moxen, you can devote moxen slots to land slots. Mox Pearl -> Tundra and the remaining moxen should be Mishra's Factories.  Replace Lotus with Petal.

If the meta is extremely janky (read: extended aggro with tons of removal), consider running red akroma, white akroma, and Sphinx of the Steel Wind.

[Vinceisg0d]

Since Oath seems like a viable option, what would you recommend for a list? If it's not too much to ask.

I love Oath. It was my first pick. Unfortunately I'm missing Oaths and Orchards (But my store should have them). I didn't think it'd be possible without the power.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I want to say as clearly as I can that this list is PURE jank designed to beat worse jank like "40 lightning bolt.dec."

// Lands
    4 Forbidden Orchard
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    4 Mishra's Factory
    1 Seat of the Synod

// Creatures
    1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
    2 Empyrial Archangel

// Spells
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Scroll Rack
    1 Demonic Tutor
    4 Impulse
    1 Ponder
    4 Oath of Druids
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    4 Misdirection
    4 Propaganda
    4 Force of Will
    1 Tinker
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Mystic Remora
    1 Balance

SB:
4 Mindbreak Trap (vs ant)
3 Null Rod (in case someone has power)
4 Seal of Primordium
4 Ichy hate package

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

Since the list has white anyway, why not run some number of Enlightened Tutors to help reliably find Oath?  It seems quite versatile in this list as it can also get Remora or Propeganda, allowing you to reduce the number of copies of each, resulting in fewer dead draws.

Crop Rotation is another option, perhaps as a 1-2 of, to increase the effective number of Orchards, as well as being able to get Mishra's Factory.

Mystic Remora doesn't seem very good in a powerless and creature heavy metagame.

[silvernail]

UR landstill would be pretty good in a aggro like metagame.

[Vinceisg0d]

There any other opinions aside from Oath out of curiosity? Hmm... Such a tough call.

Would I be able to make Dredge work?

Also, would you add anything to 43 land from Legacy if it's transformed into vintage?

What about some sort of Black based control? Hymns and such?

Does Noble Fish do bad in an underpowered meta? I don't see Null Rod being good.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Mystic Remora doesn't seem very good in a powerless and creature heavy metagame.

I actually built "scrub Oath" to be able to take on 3-4 Standard decks to advertise the format.  I had Sun Droplets in place of Mana Drains and no Balance main (since inevitably someone would have no hand).  In that context, Mystic Remora does a good job finding and defending Oath.  It still seems good against 40 counterspell.dec and 40 lightning bolt.dec

StP, Path to Exile, and/or Enlightened Tutor are likely better than Remoras/Misdirections.

[meadbert]

Would I be able to make Dredge work?

Yes.  The question is how much hate will you face.

Also, would you add anything to 43 land from Legacy if it's transformed into vintage?

Fastbond for sure obviously.  Then Bazaar of Baghdad might make sense instead of some cycling lands.

[silvernail]

If I were in your metagame I'd rock UR landstill or black/green control (re: the rock variants) .

[honestabe]

I'd play an oath list simaler to what ambilelantduck suggested.  But, I'd probably find a way to get some thoughtseizes/Duresses in there.

Also, crop rotation is a must have. In your meta, it's perfect to see an attacking meddling mage/any other creature, really get picked off by a crop rotation for mishra's factory.  I'd also suggest a path to exile in the main, or at least the sideboard, if you're playing white

[Vinceisg0d]

Thanks. What would a B/G Control look like? I apologize again for all the questions. I wish I could find it on my own, I've looked. Every list is full of power since most other players get to use proxies at least! =P

[BruiZar]

I would play control goblins or solidarity.

[Vinceisg0d]

Tournaments tomorrow.

I have no idea what I'm going to play yet =o I am leaning towards either:

A creature based aggro/control deck (BGx probably)
UWG Fish
Dredge, if I can get the cards. I have Undiscovered Paradise and most cards, just no Bazaars..
Elves
Zoo

Zoo is also a pretty open deck I think. But not sure what the list would look like. Close to legacy I guess.

Cant really find any decent lists without power though... Wish we could just use proxies =P

[AmbivalentDuck]

Dude, why would you play fish?  The whole reason it's in the format is to disrupt the top tier with various soft locks while dealing incremental damage.  The deck sucks in the context of a zero proxy meta.

You're effectively playing legacy with improved tutoring.  The undisputed kings of the format will be Ad-Nauseam Tendrils, Vial Goblins, and Oath.  Everyone will have infi dredge hate.  Also, elves are painfully easy to disrupt.

Play Oath, ANT, or a legacy list.

[Vinceisg0d]

I went to put together Oath and I just couldnt' find all the cards. Couldn't find Misdirections, Propandas, and my Drains didn't come in (They were scheduled to be here today).

Tried to look up ANT, but couldn't find a budget list, which is what lead me to a legacy Zoo list.

[Dnine]

Affinity with clamps and disciples is extremely powerfull since null rod will not be very popular.  Even without moxes you can still get really explosive hands.  ancient tombs can be used to speed up the deck as well if you stick to blue black then you shouldn't have any mana issues with them.

[Ten-Ten]

@Vinceisg0d: ANT in type1.5 can easily be brought over to type1. Unless you dont own Chrome Mox or Dual lands. Have you looked up deckcheck.net  ? I will post my list in a bit.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Tournaments tomorrow.

What did you play and what won?

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

@Vinceisg0d: ANT in type1.5 can easily be brought over to type1. Unless you dont own Chrome Mox or Dual lands. Have you looked up deckcheck.net  ? I will post my list in a bit.

The Legacy ANT builds are considerably different from T1 ANT.  Most run only 1-2 Ad Naus along with 4x Brainstrom, Ponder, Mystical Tutor, Lotus Petal and LED, all of which are restricted in Vintage.  In my testing of Legacy ANT, Infernal Tutor+LED is very important in how the deck plays out.  Basically, the unrestricted tutors, cantrips, and acceleration compensate for the deck's lack of power by lending it a more consistent brokenness.  So one cannot merely port an ANT Legacy list into Vintage.  I have been playing T1 ANT for a while and would definitely not recommend playing it without power, because the additional acceleration and bombs are fundamental to how the deck functions (for example, without Lotus, Will and tutors become much weaker.  Without Ancestral, tutors cannot be used to increase your resources, so they are only useful when you have mana and need a bomb, or a bomb and need mana).

[Vinceisg0d]

I played 43 land, lost to the guy who won round one and then a guy with 4 Back to Basics and I never drew any of my 4 Krosan Grips.

A BGW rock deck won, Confidants, Tops, KoTR, Goyfs, beat Vial Goblins in the finals.

Overall I think my deck was the best there, so a dissapointing performance. I actually should have beat the deck who won. He couldn't believe he pulled it through, in game three I had about 8 dredges to hit a Tabernacle (He had 0 land, 2 Goyfs and a KoTR) or even Mazes or Factories. I pretty much whiffed and hit all my spells and fetches / duals. Then he ripped Wastleland on his draw to hit my Glacial Chasm for the win, where I would have been able to dredge the rest of my deck next turn.

The Merfolk match I slaughtered him game one, games two and three he played turn 3 Back to Basics and I didnt draw any of my 4 Krosan Grips (I mulliganed for it game 3), or dredge any Ray of Revelations.

I even had to mulligan two 1 land hands during the day (With 43 lands... =P).

[TopSecret]

I don't know if you still need ideas, but all the decks you listed are creature decks, a lot of them being tribal.

So, why don't you build a deck with creature hate as a main theme with a bunch of sweepers like Volcanic Fallout, Engineered Plague, Firespout, Engineered Explosives, Pyroclasm, Pernicious Deed, or Night of Soul's Betrayal and various spot removal?

You could play anything from mono-black control to burn with maindeck Volcanic Fallout and some fat finisher. From the sounds of it, it wouldn't really matter what you played as long as it destroyed creature strategies consistently. Worst case, if you go overboard on maindeck creature kill, you can construct your sideboard so that you can board into something that kills whatever the other expected wildcard is, whether it's Dredge, Oath, or Combo.