[Premium Article] Eternal Issues: Myth of Power, CounterTop, etc

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/19114_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Eternal_Issues.html

Editor's Blurb:

Monday, April 5th - In today’s edition of So Many Insane Plays, Stephen Menendian tackles a number of Eternal Magic issues that are close to his heart. There’s talk on his reaction to the new Reserved List, The Legacy Banned List, Bant CounterTop, and The Myth of Power… [Editor’s Note – Due to a fine performance at GP Houston, Patrick Chapin will be here tomorrow!]

[CorwinB]

I hope you don't mind me quoting a small part of your article :

And if history is a guide, the forces of the status quo (i.e. the forces that support the Reserved List) are most vocal and strongest when the winds of change are blowing against them. To take a polemic example (forgive the extreme nature of the comparison), southern U.S. states were most vocal in their defense of slavery when the institution was under greatest attack, and that’s when most southern states actually strengthened their slave laws. Although disappointed, I’m not surprised that Wizards strengthened the Reserved List when it was facing the greatest peril since its inception.

I, for one, do not forgive the nature of the comparison. Comparing people in favor of keeping the RL to hysterical slave owners is just Godwin's Law lite, and you should be ashamed of doing such comparisons. I do not intend this to turn into another RL thread, since opinions have been voiced pretty clearly on the subject already, I just wanted you to know how disappointed I am that you would resort to such wording to make your case.

[meadbert]

I, for one, do not forgive the nature of the comparison. Comparing people in favor of keeping the RL to hysterical slave owners is just Godwin's Law lite, and you should be ashamed of doing such comparisons.

Property rights played a prominent role in both debates.  I actually consider this to be a good analogy.

Consider a slave owner who had payed a small fortune to purchase a slave as he aged.  Freeing that slave essentially takes away that couple's retirement.  It would be like canceling Social Security and Medicare today.  This guy spent his whole life saving to afford a slave so he could retire in his old age or so his wife could continue to live well after he died.  Now this was taken away by the state.   None of this makes slavery any fairer to the slave, but from the slave owner's perspective it is all about property rights.

[Smmenen]

I hope you don't mind me quoting a small part of your article :

And if history is a guide, the forces of the status quo (i.e. the forces that support the Reserved List) are most vocal and strongest when the winds of change are blowing against them. To take a polemic example (forgive the extreme nature of the comparison), southern U.S. states were most vocal in their defense of slavery when the institution was under greatest attack, and that’s when most southern states actually strengthened their slave laws. Although disappointed, I’m not surprised that Wizards strengthened the Reserved List when it was facing the greatest peril since its inception.

I, for one, do not forgive the nature of the comparison. Comparing people in favor of keeping the RL to hysterical slave owners is just Godwin's Law lite, and you should be ashamed of doing such comparisons. I do not intend this to turn into another RL thread, since opinions have been voiced pretty clearly on the subject already, I just wanted you to know how disappointed I am that you would resort to such wording to make your case.

That's not the comparison I'm making.  I'm not saying that people who want the RL are slave owners.   The point I'm making in that decontextualized quote is that resistance to change is greatest when the threat of change is most potent.  It wasn't until abolitionist calls to end slavery after the Missouri Compromise and abolition succeeded in England that southern slave states moved for stronger fugitive slave laws and harsher slave statutes.

EDIT: something is wrong with the formatting of this article.  the last half is all in bold   someone should say something on the SCG forums.  

[Valorale]

you should be ashamed of doing such comparisons

 please ... extreme analogy? yes. Ashamed? get off your hypersensitive soap box.


Steve im not even sure that if you had made a more impassioned plea that a different outcome wouldve resulted. There seems to be this prevailing image that a mutual understanding between Wizards + 3rd party Ddalers that once a card reaches both X value and Y demand, theres little chance of it being reprinted even as a FTV. Im not sure if this is because Wizards doesnt want to rock the boat or they dont have an answer so instead of doing something they essentially do nothing.

Also did Aaron Forsythe only ask for suggestions on Legacy cards to unban or was Vintage mentioned also?

[CorwinB]

That's not the comparison I'm making.  I'm not saying that people who want the RL are slave owners.   The point I'm making in that decontextualized quote is that resistance to change is greatest when the threat of change is most potent.  It wasn't until abolitionist calls to end slavery after the Missouri Compromise and abolition succeeded in England that southern slave states moved for stronger fugitive slave laws and harsher slave statutes.

I never said you were implying that RL proponents were slave owners. Just that you were comparing them (as defenders of statu quo faced with a strong threat of change), and that such a comparison was bringing all the negatives associated with slavery and Southern secession, which was uncalled for and a poor debating tactic, akin to a discussion reaching its Godwin point.

This being said, I really enjoyed the rest of the article, especially the part about the myth of absolute power.

[The Atog Lord]

The issue of the Reserved List has been discussed to death.

And a discussion comparing the reserve list and slaveholding has no place on TMD.

Comparing supporters of the reserve list to slave owners is very, very inflammatory.

I'm locking this thread.

Please do not start additional threads about the reserve list.