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Author Topic: Keyword Creature  (Read 3906 times)
KBH
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« on: February 15, 2010, 08:14:58 pm »

Not sure about cost, power/toughness, color etc but I am just floating an idea

This creature has all keyword abilities that do not require an argument to be specified

(An argument is an object, player, cost, type, quality, number N, subtype activated ability, ability or text)


Therefore the keyword abilities in question would be deathtouch, defender, double strike, first strike, flying, haste, intimidate, lifelink, reach, shroud, trample, vigilance, banding, rampage, flanking, phasing, shadow, horsemanship, fear, provoke, changeling, persist, wither, exalted and haunt, sunburst,  and epic

This list only includes keyword abilities that function while in the battlefield because flash, evoke split second and conspire are not really applicable as they function on the stack.  So the ability may need to reed "all keyword abilities that function in the battlefield that do not requirement an argument to be specified)

I am not sure that Haunt or Persist would work since I don't know if the creature will keep those abilities when its put into the graveyard.  It may be better to say all STATIC keyword abilities.

Also note that Indestructible is not a keyword and neither is unblockable. 

Problematic abilities are Defender and Epic.  I am not sure what can be done to eliminate Epic.

It may be better to make a creature like

When ~creature~ comes into play choose 10 static keyword abilities that function in the battlefield and do not require an argument

(An argument is an object, player, cost, type, quality, number N, subtype, activated ability, ability, or text)


Also, it is unclear if things like Radiance are actually keyword abilities or not.  One surprising ability that is called a "keyword" but said to have no game effect in itself is Imprint.  It is on the same list as Grandeur, Chroma, Hellbent, etc

One last thing to note is that if I confine it to static abilities, that eliminates Exalted and Provoke which are triggered abilities.  Banding however is a static ability.  On the plus side it may eliminate Epic since Epic is both static and "delayed trigger"

Finally, I don't think this could be used with Sunburst but I could be wrong

One more lastly, even though you could have "landwalk" as a landwalk ability, the keyword still requires a type where a type includes supertyes and subtypes.  So I don't think it is valid either.

The general idea is to specify a set of abilities without having to list them all on the card so perhaps it is a fool's errand.  There are 25 abilities that I would like to include (not counting persist and haunt but counting exalted and provoke and epic)
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Anusien
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 11:22:15 am »

Too complicated to see play. You'd have to go to Oracle to see what the card did at all.
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 06:20:52 pm »

Your list has Rampage, but Rampage takes a number.  Creatures have Rampage 2, not just Rampage.

I understand the desire to make this kind of thing, but if you want something printable, maybe it could gain one ability until EOT, once per turn.  Or something like Urza's Avenger or Jodah's Avenger.

Perhaps some of the complications of this could be lowered by making the ability something like "0: Name a creature card.  ~This~ gains a static keyword ability of the named card until end of turn."  I'm not sure if this would restrict what you could name to just cards legal in your format, thus keeping things like Shadow, Bands-with-other and Horsemanship out of Standard.  This might make it a little better, but would still necessitate Oracle.
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Delha
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« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 03:11:55 pm »

How about this:

Shifter Warlord
X
Creature - Shapeshifter
Sunburst
When Shifter Warlord enters the battlefield, you may reveal any number of creature cards you own from outside the game. If a revealed creature has flying, Shifter Warlord has flying. The same is true for deathtouch, defender, double strike, first strike, haste, intimidate, lifelink, reach, shroud, trample, vigilance, banding, flanking, phasing, shadow, horsemanship, fear, provoke, changeling, persist, wither, and exalted. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
0/0


I cut out haunt and epic, and made Sunburst permanent to balance it's P/T. The reveal cuts out the need for Oracle use. Sadly, I think it just barely doesn't fit onto a card. Without Sunburst, it's almsot exactly the same amount of text as Warp World.

In casual games, you can get literally everything. In constructed formats, it demands a tradeoff slots against utility. Progenitus/Dragon Tyrant/Vampire Nighthawk could be pretty harsh. Realistically, resolving this for 3 lets you stabilize or race against pretty much any tinkered bot. Living the dream puts your opponent on a 1 turn clock and gains you 10, probably putting you out of range for their last desperation Tendrils/counterattack.

Broken as hell in Standard though. Swapping out Dragon Tyrant for Marisi's Twinclaws makes the same ability set within Standard legal cards. Maybe limit it to two creatures? Still potentially insane. Dropping the double strike still makes Baneslayers on crack.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 03:14:36 pm by Delha » Logged

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Anusien
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 11:26:30 pm »

So it's a 1/1 Double Strike with Exalted and Haste on turn 1?
Turn 1 attack for 4 seems a little broken... Double that when it gains lifelink and evasion and shroud.
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2010, 11:54:58 am »

Sunburst the number of abilities, with a fixed p/t?
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 12:09:23 pm »

An artifact block is supposed to be coming up right?  How about:

Shifter Warlord
X {B}
Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter
Sunburst
Pay 1 life: Shifter Warlord gains your choice of flying, deathtouch, first strike, haste, intimidate, lifelink, or wither until end of turn.
0/0


The manacost and sunburst are a little more complicated than a straight X, but this limits it to decks that can make black mana.  You can still get a 2/2 for 2 with X=1 paid for with non-black mana.  I tried to limit the number of keyword choices to black-aligned abilites (not sure if I succeeded).
I was going to try to make it 'Pay X life', so that bigger versions are more painful to pump up, but I think you'd need charge counters or something to capture what X was, and charge counters shouldn't be on the same creature as +1/+1s.  Maybe "Pay life equal to ~'s power:".
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2010, 05:51:25 pm »

I like it, but it's too easy to just go "Oops, Flying Intimidate Haste Lifelink gogogogogo" and not suffer any downside. In part because the cost is too low, and in part because life payments to gain lifelink isn't really a drawback.

I like it this version better as a throwback to the old Urza's Avenger (which Jodah's Avenger is also a throwback to). Somewhere between Urza's Avenger and Cairn Wanderer is where you're aiming, I imagine.
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Delha
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 02:40:06 pm »

Latest suggestion:
Shifter Warlord
X
Creature - Shapeshifter
Sunburst
Remove a +1/+1 counter from Shifter Warlord: Reveal a creature card you own from outside the game. If the revealed creature has flying, Shifter Warlord has flying. The same is true for deathtouch, defender, double strike, first strike, haste, intimidate, lifelink, reach, shroud, trample, vigilance, flanking, phasing, shadow, fear, provoke, changeling, persist, wither, and exalted. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
0/0


Thanks for pointing out Jodah’s Avenger, I’d never seen that one before. This version feels like it can't come up with a truly broken powerset for less than four mana, and at that point it’s balanced out by tiny size.

Alternately, how about making it “reveal up to X creatures”, then tacking on Legendary? It adds potentially dead draws, and provides an easily run countermeasure. This version still allows for pretty stupid plays though. Accelerating into a turn two 3/3 flying, trample, haste, lifelink, deathtouch, first strike shroud (Hellkite Overlord, Vampire Nighthawk, Deft Duelist) feels pretty unfair.

Note: I cut banding and horsemanship, b/c I really don’t forsee those ever being printed again. If we wanted to take the next step and make this actually fit inside the text box, I’d cut all abilities from flanking onward.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
Darkenslight
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« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 08:32:00 am »

Try this one:

Shifter Warlord    {8}
Legendary Creature - Eldrazi
Changeling
Put a -1/-1 counter on Shifter Warlord: Reveal a creature card you own from outside the game. Shifter Warlord gains all printed abilities of the revealed card other than F;ash, in addition to its current abilities.
6/6
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Delha
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« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 04:20:05 pm »

In that incarnation, it's the Best Oath/Reanimate Target Ever.

T1: Land, Mox, Oath.
T2: Oath into This Guy -> Reveal Giant Solifuge -> Reveal Phage The Untouchable -> WIN

Or worse:
T1: Rit -> Entomb -> Reanimate.

Spot removal doesn't work, you just respond by revealing Solifuge again. His built in protection is stupidly good.


And that doesn't even begin to touch on breaking him w/out using the attack step. A few I came up with in the last couple minutes:
--Double-imprint of Tidespout Tyrant
--Morselhoarder, Shivan Hellkite/Aerial Caravan/etc...
--Soul Drinker, War Elemental, Triskelion
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
Darkenslight
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2010, 07:53:41 am »

In that incarnation, it's the Best Oath/Reanimate Target Ever.

T1: Land, Mox, Oath.
T2: Oath into This Guy -> Reveal Giant Solifuge -> Reveal Phage The Untouchable -> WIN

Or worse:
T1: Rit -> Entomb -> Reanimate.

Spot removal doesn't work, you just respond by revealing Solifuge again. His built in protection is stupidly good.


And that doesn't even begin to touch on breaking him w/out using the attack step. A few I came up with in the last couple minutes:
--Double-imprint of Tidespout Tyrant
--Morselhoarder, Shivan Hellkite/Aerial Caravan/etc...
--Soul Drinker, War Elemental, Triskelion

Yeah, I realised the error of my ways about 10 seconds after posting it.  IT would cost at least 17 mana and have an 'If you didn't cast Shifter Warlord from yuor hand" clause.
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Anusien
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« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2010, 10:04:47 pm »

Rather than have it interact with the sideboard, why not make it like a Volrath's Shapeshifter?
2: Reveal a card. If you do, CARDNAME becomes a copy of that card until end of turn with this ability.

Or something like that.
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Delha
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2010, 02:57:44 pm »

FWIW, I was trying to stick to the original concept: A creature with every (or nearly every) keyworded ability feasible.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
Anusien
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« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2010, 12:36:02 pm »

Sure. But when the original concept sucks, feel free to do something cool inspired by it.
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Delha
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« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2010, 12:50:11 pm »

Ouch, hahaha... I think I may have also been partial to the initial concept because I was really happy w/ the name I came up with. Not the greatest reason to try and force through an idea.

So what would you cost your version?  {1} {U} {U}, same as Volrath's?
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself.
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