chain of vapor, countering copies

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

If a player plays a chain of vapor targeting his own mox and then sac’s a land to copy chain of vapor targeting something of mine, can I counter the copy? I’ve heard a lot of yes’s and no’s about this.

[Yare]

When a player copies a spell, it goes onto the stack just like any other spell, so it can be responded to, countered, etc. Each copy of Chain of Vapor is a separate spell. The original version will resolve, do its thing (including bouncing the permanent) and then the copy will go on the stack. So, yes, you can counter the copy.

[LotusHead]

And if Trinisphere is out, you won't have to pay 3 for the copy, as you just copy it and it goes on the stack, you don't play/cast it.

EDIT: to be clear, this is if they chain your say, Smokestack, letting you have a chance to copy Chain of Vapor.  Your copy would be free (-1 land)

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Does any one know why so many players say that this can not be done? I m not going to name names, but I've heard that this can't be done by some of the "better" players out there. Which is why I'm posting about it here.

[Tha Gunslinga]

So if my opponent Chains their Mox, while I have some sort of lock component on board, if I counter the initial one, they can't copy it?

[Wagner]

So if my opponent Chains their Mox, while I have some sort of lock component on board, if I counter the initial one, they can't copy it?

Chain of Vapor's copy ability is not triggered, it is part of the spell. It the spell is countered, there is no window of opportunity to copy it.

That would be incredibly powerful.
Image the following situation.  Chalice for 1 on the board ruining your day. You cast chain of Vapor on your Mox, it gets countered by Chalice, you sac a land and still get a copy that goes directly on the stack that cannot be countered by Chalice at 1.

Chain of Vapor

Instant, U (1)

Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand. Then that permanent's controller may sacrifice a land. If the player does, he or she may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy.

Not sure it's the best exemple, but compare the text to a fetch land.

Bloodstained Mire

Land

, Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Bloodstained Mire: Search your library for a Swamp or Mountain card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

If you counter the initial search ability, the player doesn't get to shuffle his library.

[Tha Gunslinga]

Appreciate the assistance.  I don't think I've ever had a clear idea of how the card worked, especially since I've heard many different people say different things about it.

[Cyberpunker]

What is the CC of copies of a spell?

[Wagner]

What is the CC of copies of a spell?

706.2 - When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object's characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The "copiable values" are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, card type, subtype, supertype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by "as ... enters the battlefield" and "as ... is turned face up" abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied. [CompRules 2009/10/01]

[Cyberpunker]

So chalice at 2 counters Brain Freeze and all its copies then?

[LotusHead]

So chalice at 2 counters Brain Freeze and all its copies then?

No.  The copies have CMC 2, but chalice only counters spells when you cast (formerly play) them (ie, the Chalice trigger happens when somebody plays/casts a spell of the approriate CMC).

Storm just says Copy it (so they go right onto the stack.)

[Delha]

Most copy effects I can think of (Fork, Twincast, Wild Ricochet, Pyromancer's Ascension) put the copy directly on the stack, just like Replicate or Storm.

As an exception, Isochron Scepter copies are specifically cast.

,  : You may copy the exiled card. If you do, you may cast the copy without paying its mana cost.