Stax under E. Flux

[Evol daN]

Hi I have a question, which I think is very difficult to figure out on my own. But I think I should understand this before a similar situation happens.

I am playing a match, opponent - Noble Fish and I am piloting Uba Stax. I have spent much of the game locked down under lots of removal and a relic of prognitious making my welder and Crucibles useless. I keep top-decking welders and finally get him to sacrifice the relic. Welders have beat him to 12. He controls 4 lands 1 Noble Hierarche and 1 Energy Flux(EF).

I control...
2 artifacts, Smoke Stack(SS)@1 and Tangle Wire(TW)@4
4 lands (2 x Barbarian Ring, 1 x Wasteland, and 1 x Shop)
3 Goblin Welders... 1 card in Graveyard (Triskellion: countered by Daze)

He passes the turn more or less tapped out.

When I enter my upkeep active player effects trigger and placed on the stack in this order...
-SS Count, SS Sac, TW Tap, and TW Fade.

Then In-active player effects stack... E Flux fees on the SS and TW.

I proceed to...
-abuse Welder Welding in Triskelion for the SS
-allow the SS-EF to resolve, wiffing.
-shoot for 3
-weld out TW for SS
-allow the TW-EF trigger to resolve.
-weld out Triskelion for TW

I would then pick up where the stack left off. I am going to stop asserting to know what happens now. I assume that I may fade TW, tap 3, sacrifice 1 and ramp SS to 1.

The big question is, can I put a counter on SS?

Other questions include...
If there were 2 counters on TW, I would only need to tap 2 right?
I have a Sphere of Resistence in hand I plan to cast, and wish to use the Wasteland on his 1 non-basic... Did I play this upkeep correctly?

[Rico Suave]

There are a few things wrong with this.

1) Energy Flux gives all artifacts an ability.  This new ability is controlled by the person who controls the artifact.  In other words, when you put active player triggers on the stack you also put the payment for Energy Flux on the stack because you control the ability. 

2) "I would then pick up where the stack left off. I am going to stop asserting to know what happens now. I assume that I may fade TW, tap 3, sacrifice 1 and ramp SS to 1."

Incorrect.  With your actions as described, you will end up tapping 4, sacrificing 1, and neither removing a fade counter nor ramping Smokestack's counters. 

You see, when an effect goes on the stack (such as Tangle Wires or Smokestacks) the effect will still resolve regardless of whether the permanent that created the effect is still around.  You will still sacrifice 1 and tap 4.

However, the effects to add a Soot counter or Fade from Tangle Wire do not have any effect if the cards were removed from play after the trigger goes on the stack but before the resolution of the trigger.  You see, the game does not view the Tangle Wire that you Welded in as the same Tangle Wire that was in play when the trigger first went on the stack.

3) "If there were 2 counters on TW, I would only need to tap 2 right?"

Correct.

4) "I have a Sphere of Resistence in hand I plan to cast, and wish to use the Wasteland on his 1 non-basic... Did I play this upkeep correctly?"

Well, you can still cast the Sphere of Resistance, and you can still use the Wasteland. 

Most answers in here probably won't cover whether you played the upkeep correctly.  Whether you played the upkeep correctly depends to a large extent what you want the board to look like after the upkeep is finished.  For example if you really want the Smokestack to ramp to 2 counters, it may be ideal to pay for it with EF.  Your opponent could have removal of some sort, and you may want to keep a Welder untapped.  There are a whole variety of possibilities that this forum isn't going to call correct or incorrect. 

Personally, I'll try to answer your question as best as I can, given the limited information available.  I would start by stacking the upkeep triggers as follows:
-EF for SS, EF for TW, SS counter, SS sacrifice, TW tap, TW fade

You will have to keep in mind that Smokestack cannot stay at 1 or more counters unless you pay for Energy Flux. 

The Tangle Wire fade is easy.  The Tangle Wire tap reaches a problem - you have to decide whether you want to tap the Wasteland, the Workshop (so you can't cast Sphere), one of the Welders, or a Barbarian Ring (cutting off your ability to pay for Energy Flux on Smokestack). 

The sacrifice is going to follow along the decision tree that you started with the Tangle Wire tap.  The soot counter follows suit.

I am no Stax expert.  However, I'm not an idiot and here is what I would do.  I'd start with the TW fade, tap the Smokestack, Tangle Wire, and Wasteland.  I'd tap both Barbarian Rings, floating RR, and sacrifice one to Smokestack.  I'd then add a soot counter to Smokestack (going to 2).  Finally, I would Weld out Tangle Wire for Triskelion, let the Energy Flux for TW fizzle, and use the floating RR to pay for the Energy Flux on Smokestack.  During my main phase, I would use the Workshop to cast a Sphere, ping the Hierarch with Trisk and his dome twice, Weld out Trisk for Tangle Wire, and pass the turn with a Welder still untapped. 

From there, you can Weld out the Smokestack at his EOT or just sacrifice the Workshop and a Welder on your next turn, ramping Smokestack to 3.  Either way, I'm pretty sure ramping Smokestack is your best way to win this game, since you have Welders out.

[Evol daN]

Thanks for the clarification of the E. Flux.

My path through the upkeep was based on my perceptions that the E flux ability was controlled by the nonactive player and that I could still ramp the SS back to 1.

While I was aware that all I needed was to remove any 2 perms to assure victory, my improper placement of the E Flux triggers led to a convoluted, inefficient and ultimately incorrect route...


Thanks again, this will greatly improve my game.

[TheShop]

Remember that flux triggers at the beginning of your upkeep and the trigger is specific to the artifact that created it.  If you have anything in the yard to get back you can stack the triggers and welder out the permanent that would die to flux for a new one:  the new one does not have an upkeep cost because it was not in play at the beginning of the upkeep.  So, if you can keep an active welder, 1 wire in play, and 1 in yard...just weld in reponse to trigger, never have to sac the wire, and keep a wire on 4 in play.   Smokestack does not work as well, so you may need to pay for it.

Welder > Flux