Careful Oath- Going Against the Grain

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

I’ve been playing around with some synergies in Vintage that I’ve never really messed around with before.  One of the ones I am really starting to like is Careful Study and graveyard-friendly cards.  Oath has been successful lately and I love Emrakul, so I stuck Careful Study and Oath together to see what I could get out of it.  I went back to the old Tyrant Oath lists and based my work off that (modified heavily, of course).  Surprisingly, I got a really fun deck that can assemble its combo fairly quickly.

One of the questions Oath designers always have to ask themselves when evaluating a card is, “Does this help me find, play, resolve, and protect Oath of Druids and/or Forbidden Orchard.”  After three months of testing, it would seem that Careful Study + Friends can do just that.  The cards I’ve experimented with that play well with CS directly are:

Deep Analysis
Think Twice
Dragon Breath
Riftstone Portal
Krosan Reclamation
Crucible of Worlds
Yawg’s Will

And some that play indirectly well with CS are:

Frantic Search
Intuition
Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
Daze
Force of Will
Misdirection
Regrowth

Let me explain.  I think the benefits of having DA, Think Twice, Dragon’s Breath, and Riftstone Portal in the GY are fairly obvious.  I really like Riftstone Portal because it allows me to cast Oath off a basic island.  In fact, I’m almost tempted to make the mana base nothing but basic Islands and Riftstone Portals with maybe one Trop and some fetches just in case.  DA and Think Twice can help Oath decks gain card advantage in the long game when the deck really needs help.  I’ve found that if the initial Oath gets countered or destroyed, it can take a while for an Oath deck to recover.   Flashback draw really helps.

Frantic Search and Intuition compliment Careful Study’s game plan by putting more cards in the graveyard.   They cost 3 to play, which can be a bit pricy for me in this deck, but I think they’re worth it- at least for now. 

The Counterspell package I run is a mix of Daze, FoW, and MisD.  With so many blue cards in the deck, FoW and MisD are a cinch to cast.  This deck has a lot of one mana spells in it, so playing Daze in an Oath deck actually makes sense to me.  I can run this deck pretty well with just one island, and then drop Orchard only when I’m ready to play Oath.  That may be counter-intuitive somewhat, but I’ve found that if I don’t have Orchard in play, my opponent is more likely to waste his counterspells on my draw spells instead of holding them for Oath.  I’m letting him think I am having trouble assembling my combo parts.  It then becomes easier to punch Oath through.  I can also cast Daze when tapped out- important since Careful Study is a sorcery.  I don’t play a full complement of Daze, though.

I like running Emrakul with Careful Study (or any of the big Eldrazi).  His Gaea’s Blessing ability allows me recycle him back into my deck with CS or Frantic Search.  It’s much easier and less clunky than using Lat-Nam’s Legacy IMO.  It helps me turn my cards’ drawbacks into advantages and I don’t have to wait to get new ones.

I couldn’t include all the cards above that work with Careful Study.  I had to test and re-test to see which ones I felt worked best.  So basically, here’s the decklist:

Creatures 
1   Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells 
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Brainstorm
4   Careful Study 
3   Daze
4   Deep Analysis
4   Force of Will
1   Frantic Search
3   Intuition
2   Misdirection
1   Ponder
4   Sleight of Hand
1   Think Twice
1   Time Walk
1   Mystical Tutor

Enchantments 
2   Dragon Breath
4   Oath of Druids

Artifacts 
1   Black Lotus
1   Lotus Petal
1   Mox Emerald   
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire

Lands 
2   Flooded Strand
4   Forbidden Orchard   
1   Forest   
3   Island
4   Misty Rainforest 
2   Riftstone Portal   
1   Tropical Island   
   
Sideboard     (15 cards) 
1   Echoing Truth   
4   Hurkyl's Recall   
4   Mindbreak Trap   
4   Ravenous Trap 
2   Tormod's Crypt

This deck departs from the conventional wisdom in a few ways.  First, the trend lately has been to stuff in more creatures and more win conditions.  That’s probably a good idea, but I don’t know if it’s the only good idea.  This deck is sleek and dedicated to finding, playing, and protecting Oath of Druids.  It runs only one win-condition: Emrakul.  He’s all I need, especially if he gets enchanted with Dragon Breath.  He’s just so solid, I love him.

The sideboard is crap.  Don’t pay too much attention to it.  It’s just what I used in testing.  I give this deck to the community for experimentation and testing.  It was a useful thought exercise for me and I’ve discovered some great synergies with CS.   It’s become one of my favorite cards now.

Enjoy!

Peace,

-Troy

[silvernail]

I fail to see how wasting main phases chucking cards into the graveyard for later use will help oath shells in general. Tailored to a specific metagame, perhaps, but your list looks terribly vulnerable to better decks with a slight amount of hate to handle Emrakul. Running some flashback cards I can see, but running multiple sorcery speed card drawers seems bad in a control deck ( you run 12 sorcery speed card drawers).

[meadbert]

Interesting idea.  Think twice is pretty bad.  Careful Study into Think Twice digs 3 cards deep and nets 0 card advantage for 4 mana.
Jace does the same thing its first turn and then again in subsequent turns for free.

So one obvious question is why not just run Jace?
The other is why not run AKs?  Those are synergy with both Oath and Intuition.  The only "downside" is that AK for 1 is weak, but it beats the pants off flashing back Think Twice.

Enlightened Tutor has some synergy with the Oath + Dragon's Breath plan.  You can get Oath with it, or if you already have Oath you can put Dragon's Breath on top before you Oath.

Also I did not see that you mentioned this, but you can Intuition for 2xDragon's Breath with an Oath activation on the stack to get 1 in the yard for Emrakul.

EDIT:
In response to Silvernail:
Sorcery speed draw is only problematic if your counterspells cost mana.  If you run Force, Misidirection and Daze then you tapping out is not a problem at all.

[Troy_Costisick]

Think Twice is pretty bad.  I had one extra card slot for something that works in the Graveyard.  It could have been a Dragon Breath or another Riftstone.  I chose TT because it pitches to FoW/MisD.  It's not important to me.  Jace would be an improvement.  I'd put him in instead of Think Twice now that I've had a chance to see him in action.  Do you think the mana base can support a 4cc card, though?

Originally, I was running multiple E-tutors.  Maybe one would be fine.  The problem I got into was casting it at times.  It made me want a Tundra.  But that was with two or three.  One might be a different scenario.

AK's instead of Sleight of Hand might work better.  I didn't like that they cost 2 to play.  I really wanted to be able to run the deck on one mana on Turn 1.  Running AKs makes me want to run more artifact mana which dilutes the spell density of the deck.  I appreciate your feedback, meadbert.  That gives me some more to think about.

As for what Silvernail said, I've seen See Beyond and Compulsive Research used in decks lately.  I don't think sorcery draw is the anathma it used to be.

Peace,

-Troy

[Delha]

I fail to see how wasting main phases chucking cards into the graveyard for later use will help oath shells in general. Tailored to a specific metagame, perhaps, but your list looks terribly vulnerable to better decks with a slight amount of hate to handle Emrakul. Running some flashback cards I can see, but running multiple sorcery speed card drawers seems bad in a control deck ( you run 12 sorcery speed card drawers).

It's not about "chucking cards into the graveyard". It's about running a boatload of cheap draw to dig up Oath/Orchard as needed. Careful Study happens to be one of the few spells that digs 2 cards deep for . From there you're dumping cards anyway, so you might as well use that to your advantage as well.


@ Troy: How do you handle Chalice at 1? It seems to shut down almost all of your draw. How crippling is Leyline against this build?

Have you considered a singleton Sea and the black tutors? The biggest problem I have with the draw approach is that running tutors instead is often quicker and more reliable. When you were running multiple Enlightened, what was the problem with fetching up a Tundra? Did you often find that it was too dangerous to expose your manabase to Waste? I'd have thought that getting to two mana still shouldn't be so bad, but as you said, the list is very mana light.

How about cutting TT and triple DA for AK? That way, you keep your single cost draw and just rotate among your "grave activated" slots. Also, how about the singleton Scroll?

[Troy_Costisick]

@ Troy: How do you handle Chalice at 1? It seems to shut down almost all of your draw. How crippling is Leyline against this build?

Chalice @ 1 means there won't be Chalice @ 2.  Fine with me.  The Flashback cards and Intuition get me through game 1 then Hurkyl's comes out of the SB for 2 and 3.  Not to mention 9 counterspells.

Have you considered a singleton Sea and the black tutors? The biggest problem I have with the draw approach is that running tutors instead is often quicker and more reliable. When you were running multiple Enlightened, what was the problem with fetching up a Tundra? Did you often find that it was too dangerous to expose your manabase to Waste? I'd have thought that getting to two mana still shouldn't be so bad, but as you said, the list is very mana light.

Yeah, the thing about the white and black tutors is the mana base.  Anytime you fetch for a non-basic, you're basically going to concede that land to Wasteland.  E-Tutor is a bit better than Vamp and Demo in this instance because of Riftstone.  Including 1 in the deck with the mana base I have above has tested fine for me since meadbert suggested it.  I wouldn't go past that without a Tundra, and if I'm going to play a Tundra I have to question the whole thing.  So, one E-tutor looks good.

How about cutting TT and triple DA for AK? That way, you keep your single cost draw and just rotate among your "grave activated" slots. Also, how about the singleton Scroll?

That's one thing you can do.  I've tried some AK packages.  I've not tried 4 CS, 4Int, 4AK though.  It might be interesting to try.  I just wonder if having to wait on AK to get good is better than DA being good right away.  One advantage of AK is I can cast it early unlike DA- which is only good out of the GY.  As for Merchant Scroll, I wouldn't bother.  The mana base is very light and getting past 2 mana to play something in addition to Scroll is tough.  I'd rather add in a Jace.  Good suggestions!

Peace,

-Troy

[median]

Have you tried bazaars? They seem made for this.

Edit:
Also, look into cabal therapy as a blessing effect.

[Troy_Costisick]

Have you tried bazaars? They seem made for this.

Edit:
Also, look into cabal therapy as a blessing effect.

I hadn't thought about the interaction of Bazaar and Riftstone Portal.  That might be really good.  In fact, I might put a singleton portal in my Dredge sideboard just to help me cast Nature's Claims.  I don't care for the Cabal Therapy idea, tho.  Getting decked is not a real concern for me, and I'm very hesitant to weaken the mana base further by adding another color.  I don't think that fits into the scheme I have for this deck right now.

As for the AK suggestions, I've been doing some testing with them.  Right now, I don't really like them over Deep Analysis.  If I start with Careful Study or Frantic Search on turn one, I can DA for two cards on turn two.  With AK, I have to wait until I draw another one or use my Intuitions to get more.  I'd rather Intuition for Oath-Oath-Oath or Orchard-Orchard-Orchard.  So for right now, I'm inclined to stick with Deep Analysis over Accumulated Knowledge.

Peace,

-Troy

EDIT: If I were to experiment with Bazaar, I'd mate Life from the Loam with it to make sure I keep enough cards in hand and to get back Orchard from the yard.  It's an idea wourth tinkering with, I think.

[meadbert]

AKs are worse than DA for sure.  In general I want to use my Intuition for assembling Oath when I play Oath which is why I generally do not run DA and AK.
AK's might work in conjunction with Bazaar and DA.

Also, Ancient Grudge might not be terrible.  You already have some red sources and even without one you can pitch it to the yard.  If you run 2 then you can use Intuition to put it in the yard.

Another card to consider is Tolarian Winds.  It is one of those cards that seems like it ought to be broken at least in my mind, but then I can never make it worth running.  4AKs, 4DAs and various dead cards in hand might do the trick. 

[Delha]

As for Merchant Scroll, I wouldn't bother.  The mana base is very light and getting past 2 mana to play something in addition to Scroll is tough.  I'd rather add in a Jace.

If mana is the primary concern, shouldn't Scroll -> Ancestral (or even Brainstorm) be better? I'd think that being spread across turns as needed would help a lot w/ keeping it castable on early turns. The flexibility of Jace is indisputable, but that obviously assumes he isn't stranded in your hand.

[Troy_Costisick]

Heya,

Also, Ancient Grudge might not be terrible.  You already have some red sources and even without one you can pitch it to the yard.  If you run 2 then you can use Intuition to put it in the yard.

Another card to consider is Tolarian Winds.  It is one of those cards that seems like it ought to be broken at least in my mind, but then I can never make it worth running.  4AKs, 4DAs and various dead cards in hand might do the trick. 

I like Ancient Grudge a lot.  That would be a fine sideboard card for this deck.  Thanks for the suggestion!  As for Tolarian Winds, I’ve tried it and I’ve also tried Flux.  It seems to me that these two cards have to be broken in some way.  If Windfall is good enough to be restricted, why can’t these at least approach the level of playable spells?  Unfortunately, I haven’t found that these have worked all that well for me.  If I were running Yawg’s Will and/or Ill-Gotten Gains they’d be better, I think, but I can’t fit them in with a such light mana base.

As for Merchant Scroll, I wouldn't bother.  The mana base is very light and getting past 2 mana to play something in addition to Scroll is tough.  I'd rather add in a Jace.

If mana is the primary concern, shouldn't Scroll -> Ancestral (or even Brainstorm) be better? I'd think that being spread across turns as needed would help a lot w/ keeping it castable on early turns. The flexibility of Jace is indisputable, but that obviously assumes he isn't stranded in your hand.

You can experiment with Merchant Scroll if you want, but I’ve found I just don’t like it.  Mainly, it just delays me for a turn.  Scrolling for Ancestral isn’t really a good play in all actuality.  Scrolling for Brainstorm is better if I have Emrakul in my hand, but that isn’t really a concern.  Scrolling for Force or Daze is the best play, but I’m not having too much trouble drawing into my counterspells.  If you’re going to play it, I’d replace one of the Intuitions with it.  Personally, though, I’d rather tutor for Oath or Orchard- if I have to tutor at all.

After taking into the suggestions of the first part of this thread, I started testing this deck (Jace Lovers will like it):

Creatures 
1   Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells 
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Brainstorm
4   Careful Study
3   Daze
4   Deep Analysis
1   Enlightened Tutor
4   Force of Will
1   Frantic Search
3   Intuition
2   Misdirection
1   Ponder
4   Sleight of Hand
1   Time Walk

Enchantments 
2   Dragon Breath
4   Oath of Druids

Artifacts 
1   Black Lotus
1   Lotus Petal
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire

Lands 
2   Flooded Strand
4   Forbidden Orchard
1   Forest
3   Island
4   Misty Rainforest
2   Riftstone Portal
1   Tropical Island

Planeswalkers 
1   Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard     (15 cards) 
1   Echoing Truth
4   Hurkyl's Recall
4   Mindbreak Trap
4   Ravenous Trap
2   Tormod's Crypt
 
But then, I really liked the Bazaar suggestion.  It has nice synergy with Riftstone Portal and Deep Analysis.  It let me drop Frantic Search which was a card I was liking less and less.  Basically, Bazaar took the place and did the job of Sleight of Hand for this deck.  So now, here is the list I am playing with:

Creatures 
1   Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Spells 
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Brainstorm
4   Careful Study
3   Daze
4   Deep Analysis
4   Force of Will
3   Intuition
2   Life from the Loam
2   Misdirection
1   Ponder
1   Regrowth
1   Time Walk

Enchantments 
2   Dragon Breath
4   Oath of Druids

Artifacts 
1   Black Lotus
1   Lotus Petal
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Ruby
1   Mox Sapphire

Lands 
4   Bazaar of Baghdad
1   Flooded Strand
4   Forbidden Orchard
1   Forest
3   Island
4   Misty Rainforest
3   Riftstone Portal
1   Tropical Island

Sideboard     (15 cards) 
1   Echoing Truth
3   Hurkyl's Recall
3   Ancient Grudge
2   Mindbreak Trap
4   Ravenous Trap
2   Tormod's Crypt

 There’s no Jace as of yet.  The mana requirements become even tighter when using Bazaar, but with this deck I’ve been able to hit turn 2 Oath with counterspell back-up about three-fourths of the time, maybe more.  Also, recovering from a fizzled Oath is much faster.  LftL is great with this since it lets me recover my Orchards and Fetches while fueling Bazaar.  I added in Regrowth just to help me get Oath back in hand in case I Dredge or discard it.  Maybe Krosan Reclamation would be better.  I don’t know yet.

Anyway, I am really liking the consistency of the above list.  Thanks to Bazaar, I have access to card filtering without worrying about my opponent’s countermagic.  I can sculpt my hand and cast Oath with confidence.  I think this list may have some legs to it.

Peace,

-Troy

[median]

Looking at that list, I see white is only used for E tutor, why not add black instead? Theres way more you can run, I know riftstone portal wouldn't be as great, but right now the two riftstone portals white functionality is only helping one card. Forgoing that help would allow you to get any card with vampiric/demonic and use Y will.
I think it's a more than fair trade.

[Delha]

Looking at that list, I see white is only used for E tutor, why not add black instead? Theres way more you can run, I know riftstone portal wouldn't be as great, but right now the two riftstone portals white functionality is only helping one card. Forgoing that help would allow you to get any card with vampiric/demonic and use Y will.
I think it's a more than fair trade.

This was specifically suggested and addressed before. The Riftstones allow him to get green for Oath off Wasteproof blue sources. Generating is incidental. Note that even with the Enlightened, there's still no Tundra. Fetching up duals is a risk he's strenuously avoiding.

[median]

I know, there was talk of three'ish E-tutors and a tundra at one point. I would love to see the deck go in that direction and maybe vault+key/root maze. With one tutor, the main benefit of portal is as a mana fixer for green. It's not going to help much for white, so why not cut white and run a more useful colour? I'm not saying cut the portals, just that you're not seeing a huge benefit out of them in regards to white. You will probably see a huge boost from running black tutor power and be able to cast the cards as often even with orchards as your only black source.

[serracollector]

I like the new bazaar oath build, and only have 2 suggestions:

1. Put either a seal of cleansing or a seal of primordium somewhere maindeck.  First turn leyline, with duress on your oath is going to hurt alot.  This doesn't solve chalice @2, but solves leyline, pithing needle (on bazaar), and sphere's/lodestones.

2.  Since your constantly chucking cards to counters or bazaar, and having a low mana base (say a bazaar and an island), and you play no "creatures", shouldn't balance be an auto inclusion?  It works as a mind twist, wrath of god, and armeggedon.....like its supposed to.  Seems perfect in your deck.

Anyways, my 2 cents, good luck and good job.

[Troy_Costisick]

I know, there was talk of three'ish E-tutors and a tundra at one point. I would love to see the deck go in that direction and maybe vault+key/root maze. With one tutor, the main benefit of portal is as a mana fixer for green. It's not going to help much for white, so why not cut white and run a more useful colour? I'm not saying cut the portals, just that you're not seeing a huge benefit out of them in regards to white. You will probably see a huge boost from running black tutor power and be able to cast the cards as often even with orchards as your only black source.

The talk of three E-tutors was about how they didn't work well in the deck.  If I were to play the black tutors, I'd probably cut the Intuitions for them.  But I don't see much benefit there since Int can do the same job as the black tutors.  Why bother messing with my manabase or risking dead cards in hand 'cause I don't have a black source handy?  I don't see a compelling reason right now to go out of my way to add those cards.

1. Put either a seal of cleansing or a seal of primordium somewhere maindeck.  First turn leyline, with duress on your oath is going to hurt alot.  This doesn't solve chalice @2, but solves leyline, pithing needle (on bazaar), and sphere's/lodestones.

Maindeck?  The only time I'll see a Game 1 Leyline is vs. Dredge and blowing up his Leyline isn't going to swing the game into my favor.  Pithing Needle on Bazaar will only slow me down slightly.  It'd be like countering Sleight of Hand in my original build.  No big deal in the long game, especially not Game 1.  I'd love it if my opponent played Lodestone against me.  However, two or three Spheres is a problem.  I've got Ancient Grudge in my SB at the moment in the Bazaar build along with H-Recall.  I don't think I need Seals atm.  I'd play Nature's Claim over them in the first place anyway.

2.  Since your constantly chucking cards to counters or bazaar, and having a low mana base (say a bazaar and an island), and you play no "creatures", shouldn't balance be an auto inclusion?  It works as a mind twist, wrath of god, and armeggedon.....like its supposed to.  Seems perfect in your deck.

Anyways, my 2 cents, good luck and good job.

I do like the idea of Balance.  Nice suggestion, I'll have to give that some thinking.

Peace,

-Troy

[serracollector]

I was just suggesting a seal since all your lands produce w/g, so having at least one of the seal's maindeck didn't seem like a bad idea.  Remember you also have energy flux and aura of silence at your disposal for MUD decks, both of which get around chalice @ 2, are easily playable, and both crush MUD anyways.

Balance to me is a definite. 

Also, this might just be overdoing it, but would a diamond valley be an idea for the deck?  Riftstones make it give mana, and I can't really think of a scenerio where you might need it, but saccing Emrk to gain 15, and shuffle grave back into library seems like a "cool" notion. 

Also, in testing has bazaar been a must?  Reason I am asking is because I see no crop rotation, and it can grab bazaar or Orchard.  Don't know how or wat you would drop to squeeze them in, but 1 crop and 1 balance seem amazing good, espeically with bazaar/loam.

Crop + Balance + Bazaar + Loam + Riftstone (if balance wasn't restricted lol....) sounds like a deck type in itself.

[Delha]

I know, there was talk of three'ish E-tutors and a tundra at one point. I would love to see the deck go in that direction and maybe vault+key/root maze. With one tutor, the main benefit of portal is as a mana fixer for green. It's not going to help much for white, so why not cut white and run a more useful colour? I'm not saying cut the portals, just that you're not seeing a huge benefit out of them in regards to white. You will probably see a huge boost from running black tutor power and be able to cast the cards as often even with orchards as your only black source.

Are you even reading the responses? He doesn't want to adding black because running Sea opens him up to Waste, and a look at his land count shows that losing even one is potentially crippling.

[Troy_Costisick]

I was just suggesting a seal since all your lands produce w/g, so having at least one of the seal's maindeck didn't seem like a bad idea.  Remember you also have energy flux and aura of silence at your disposal for MUD decks, both of which get around chalice @ 2, are easily playable, and both crush MUD anyways.

Aura of Silence and Engergy Flux both cost three and can be difficult to play if multiple spheres are out.  I'd be disenclined to use them in this deck right now.  H-Recall and Ancient Grudge seem better to me atm.

Also, in testing has bazaar been a must?  Reason I am asking is because I see no crop rotation, and it can grab bazaar or Orchard.  Don't know how or wat you would drop to squeeze them in, but 1 crop and 1 balance seem amazing good, espeically with bazaar/loam.

The thing about Crop Rotation is if it gets countered, you set yourself back two turns or more.  That's not acceptable in this deck.  If I need a land, I'll use Intuition to get it.  Bazaar isn't that central to the plan anyway.  Think of it more as a draw spell than an engine.  That may be splitting hairs some, but it's a difference to me.

Also, this might just be overdoing it, but would a diamond valley be an idea for the deck?  Riftstones make it give mana, and I can't really think of a scenerio where you might need it, but saccing Emrk to gain 15, and shuffle grave back into library seems like a "cool" notion. 

Crop + Balance + Bazaar + Loam + Riftstone (if balance wasn't restricted lol....) sounds like a deck type in itself.

Yeah, that sounds like an entirely different deck from what I've proposed here.

Peace,

-Troy

[serracollector]

Still running 3 energy flux side means that an EOT intuition for 3 flux (which if you can cast intuition you can cast flux), is usually gg for them.  If they get a first turn chalice for 2, and you don't have FoW in hand, thats essentially GG for you if your only playing grudge and recall.  It stops your artifact killers, and your Oath's.  Also energy flux is blue and thus pitchable to FoW.

[median]

I know this is win more, but have you considered Flash of Insight? It beats deep analysis by miles after Oathing.
Also on the sideboard, would putting in a couple trapmaker's snare to maximize your traps be a good idea?
Lastly I'm a big fan of having some solution to chalice at two. If the only win costs 2, and the only defence cost 2, I see a vulnerability.

[Troy_Costisick]

I know this is win more, but have you considered Flash of Insight? It beats deep analysis by miles after Oathing.

Yeah, but it's no good prior to Oath.  Thanks for pointing that card out, though.  Good find

Also on the sideboard, would putting in a couple trapmaker's snare to maximize your traps be a good idea?
Lastly I'm a big fan of having some solution to chalice at two. If the only win costs 2, and the only defence cost 2, I see a vulnerability.

You know, I really wish Wizards would have done a more thurough job with the traps.  I don't see any anti-artifact traps or anti-nonbasic land traps.  Those are two gaping holes IMO.  As a result, I don't think that Trapmaker's Snare even though I have 6 traps in my SB.  You make a good point about Chalice at 2, though.  Doing Chalice at 2 would cut a Shop deck off from his Spheres, but in games 2 and 3, that might be okay with him.  Maybe Serracollector's suggestion of Energy Flux has more merit than I initially gave it.

I'm pretty happy with the main deck now.  The only major change I'd make would involve Dragon Breath.  If I wanted to go more conventionally,  I'd change them to an Iona and Terastadon and use Emrakul to shuffle them back in if I Dredged or discarded them.  I don't think I'm going to do that; I'm happy with hastey Emrakul right now.  But the sideboard could use some tweaking.  I like Balance.  I'm coming around to Energy Flux.  But what to cut?  Suggestions?  For reference, here's what it currently is:

Sideboard     (15 cards) 
1   Echoing Truth
3   Hurkyl's Recall
3   Ancient Grudge
2   Mindbreak Trap
4   Ravenous Trap
2   Tormod's Crypt

Peace,

-Troy

[Delha]

You know, I really wish Wizards would have done a more thurough job with the traps.  I don't see any anti-artifact traps or anti-nonbasic land traps.  Those are two gaping holes IMO.  As a result, I don't think that Trapmaker's Snare even though I have 6 traps in my SB.  You make a good point about Chalice at 2, though.  Doing Chalice at 2 would cut a Shop deck off from his Spheres, but in games 2 and 3, that might be okay with him.  Maybe Serracollector's suggestion of Energy Flux has more merit than I initially gave it.

I'd have thought Nature's Claim is more favorable, since it's more likely castable through spheres. If they drop Chalice on 2 following T1 Golem (which still cuts off T1 Oath, barring Lotus), do you think you'll have time to find/land Flux? I agree completely that it's an absolute beating once it's on the table, but MUD is arguably all about stopping your fat spells from hitting the table in the first place. Claim is so efficient and relevant that I can't bring myself to fault people mainboarding them.

[median]

Just on the one cost solution what about Chain of Vapor? There very few permanents of yours they can bounce. Oath is the only real worry, and it would be an extreme case where you wouldn't just wait a turn and win. If you used it to get rid of a chalice at two, then the only thing a shop deck could bounce with it that would be a problem would be their own confidant. It also deals with mage.

[Delha]

Just on the one cost solution what about Chain of Vapor? There very few permanents of yours they can bounce. Oath is the only real worry, and it would be an extreme case where you wouldn't just wait a turn and win. If you used it to get rid of a chalice at two, then the only thing a shop deck could bounce with it that would be a problem would be their own confidant. It also deals with mage.

COV on their Vault, copied to your Oath would really really suck.

[Killane]

Just on the one cost solution what about Chain of Vapor? There very few permanents of yours they can bounce. Oath is the only real worry, and it would be an extreme case where you wouldn't just wait a turn and win. If you used it to get rid of a chalice at two, then the only thing a shop deck could bounce with it that would be a problem would be their own confidant. It also deals with mage.

COV on their Vault, copied to your Oath would really really suck.

indeed. COV is good in Storm decks because you can use it as an engine and you rarely have anything relevant to bounce. COV in Oath is aweful- you chain their stuff, they chain Oath, you recast Oath, they recast their stuf, and nothing actually happened except you are at -1 CA. Boo.

[median]

Just on the one cost solution what about Chain of Vapor? There very few permanents of yours they can bounce. Oath is the only real worry, and it would be an extreme case where you wouldn't just wait a turn and win. If you used it to get rid of a chalice at two, then the only thing a shop deck could bounce with it that would be a problem would be their own confidant. It also deals with mage.

COV on their Vault, copied to your Oath would really really suck.

indeed. COV is good in Storm decks because you can use it as an engine and you rarely have anything relevant to bounce. COV in Oath is aweful- you chain their stuff, they chain Oath, you recast Oath, they recast their stuf, and nothing actually happened except you are at -1 CA. Boo.

Actually a lot happens, If you cast CoV on your turn, then recast Oath on your turn, they have to recast vault+key on their turn. You've used CoV as a 3mana time walk. For them to win they need to recast key to activate key  to recast vault, and are behind a land drop. If they spread out Vault+Key and can activate it, then bounce isn't going to save you from them going infinite in response by replaying their stuff on their free turn.

[Delha]

Actually a lot happens, If you cast CoV on your turn, then recast Oath on your turn, they have to recast vault+key on their turn. You've used CoV as a 3mana time walk. For them to win they need to recast key to activate key  to recast vault, and are behind a land drop. If they spread out Vault+Key and can activate it, then bounce isn't going to save you from them going infinite in response by replaying their stuff on their free turn.

There's a lot of "if" going on in your first scenario. If you cast it in your turn, and IF you have two mana sitting around (in a mana-light deck), and IF they don't have 4 mana on their turn, and IF you hit Dragon's Breath before Emrakul (25% chance of failure), then they don't get infi turns. Unless every single one of these conditions is met, they go off.

For your second scenario, it's not quite clear what you're saying. If you're implying that after you bounce Vault on their turn, they simply replay it and go off, then you're doing it wrong. COV or not, you should be responding to the Key activation, which buys you exactly one turn. From there, the difference becomes that Boomerang/etc lets you have Oath active for that turn, whereas COV does not.

In both cases, running Claim instead (as I suggested) saves you all this worry and stops them outright.

[Troy_Costisick]

I would run Nature's Claim way before CoV in Oath.  CoV is best in Dredge and Storm Combo decks.  It's application elsewhere is suspect.  If you're insistant on playing cheap blue bounce to deal with CotV, then I recomend Repeal.  It costs the same to play and it cantrips.