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Author Topic: When does Gravestorm check for number of spell copies?  (Read 1528 times)
Delha
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« on: August 19, 2010, 11:58:26 am »

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702.66a Gravestorm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. “Gravestorm” means “When you cast this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each permanent that was put into a graveyard from the battlefield this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any of the copies.”

When casting Bitter Ordeal, does the number of copies lock in once the Gravestorm trigger goes onto the stack, or does it included any permanents sacrificed between that point and the resolution of said trigger? My impression is that it would indeed include them, but I wanted to confirm.

The Storm mechanic (below) specifies that only spells cast previously in the turn count. If triggers naturally locked in the values at the time they hit the stack, this phrasing should be redundant. Also, I'd expect Pandemonium to deal damage equal to the creatures power upon ETB, rather than power upon trigger resolution (which Gatherer currently indicates).
Quote
702.37a Storm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. “Storm” means “When you cast this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each other spell that was cast before it this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any of the copies.”
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10/4/2004 The triggered ability does not check the creature's power until the ability resolves. If the creature is not on the battlefield when the ability resolves, it does damage equal to the power of the creature right before it left the battlefield. This means that if a creature enters the battlefield which can destroy itself as a "enters the battlefield" ability, the order of resolution of the triggered abilities does not matter.  [/auote]
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Killane
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 12:09:43 pm »

Quote
702.66a Gravestorm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. “Gravestorm” means “When you cast this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each permanent that was put into a graveyard from the battlefield this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any of the copies.”

When casting Bitter Ordeal, does the number of copies lock in once the Gravestorm trigger goes onto the stack, or does it included any permanents sacrificed between that point and the resolution of said trigger? My impression is that it would indeed include them, but I wanted to confirm.

The Storm mechanic (below) specifies that only spells cast previously in the turn count. If triggers naturally locked in the values at the time they hit the stack, this phrasing should be redundant. Also, I'd expect Pandemonium to deal damage equal to the creatures power upon ETB, rather than power upon trigger resolution (which Gatherer currently indicates).
Quote
702.37a Storm is a triggered ability that functions on the stack. “Storm” means “When you cast this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each other spell that was cast before it this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any of the copies.”
Quote
10/4/2004 The triggered ability does not check the creature's power until the ability resolves. If the creature is not on the battlefield when the ability resolves, it does damage equal to the power of the creature right before it left the battlefield. This means that if a creature enters the battlefield which can destroy itself as a "enters the battlefield" ability, the order of resolution of the triggered abilities does not matter.  

The Storm trigger doesn't lock anything in. the ability looks for how many spells were cast prior to the Storm spell. Any spell cast after the Storm spell but prior to the ability resolving naturally won't contribute to this. The Gravestorm trigger also does not appear to lock anything in, and the wording is such that permanants that go to the yard prior to the resolution of the trigger should count. That's how I'd rule.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 12:57:14 pm by Killane » Logged

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Delha
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 12:34:21 pm »

The Gravestorm trigger also doesn't not appear to lock anything in, and the wording is such that permanants that go to the yard prior to the resolution of the trigger should count. That's how I'd rule.
Bold = typo?

Thanks for the input. I definitely think that triggers check values upon resolution by default, I just didn't see anything in the Comp Rules that said so explicitly, and wanted to recheck.
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Much like humanity itself.
Killane
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 12:56:56 pm »

The Gravestorm trigger also doesn't not appear to lock anything in, and the wording is such that permanants that go to the yard prior to the resolution of the trigger should count. That's how I'd rule.
Bold = typo?

Thanks for the input. I definitely think that triggers check values upon resolution by default, I just didn't see anything in the Comp Rules that said so explicitly, and wanted to recheck.

Yes typo. Fixed.
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