Whats more useful?

[RisingWater]

What would be more immediately useful for a stax deck? I'm about to start dropping some money on the more expensive cards in the deck i.e. workshops, bazaars, moxen

Ive got everything else already, I'm just curious as to what would be most beneficial at first because i'm only going to be able to drop about 500 at a time. Im leaning towards the workshops more so than the bazaars.

Opinions?

[Wagner]

You can do a Shop deck without Bazaars, you can't do it without Shops.

[RisingWater]

Well Im really liking Mono R Stax, and with welders and such the bazaars just fit so nicely so I would like to run those as well. I do think I'm going to go with the shops though first.

Im running a TPS deck at the moment and its just too unreliable for me

[LotusHead]

If you get to use Proxies where you play, Shops are one of the cheaper decks to build.

Any shop deck, minus power and shops, is probably less than $200 for lock pieces, welders. wastelands, etc.

If you don't get to use proxies where you are from, Shops first, Moxes after.  You can still use Ancient Tombs, or Talismans/Ingots/etc for artifact acceleration until you get more moxen.

[Prospero]

If you already have a set of power, and you're not worried about switching pillars, I'd pick up Shops.  If you're short power, I'd pick up power first.

[RisingWater]

No power or shops for me yet =/

Any suggestions on how to get a hold of these "money cards" ?

So far i've been buying cards on ebay and reselling them for more than I picked them up for. Best idea ive had so far. Most of my money from work goes to bill's or the wife haha

It just seems like im not even going to be able to do any good at tournaments with any deck nowadays unless its running power or atleast like $2k worth of other things

[Lemnear]

You can also Start with moxen and City of traitors and ancient tombs instead of the Shops. If you ever will Switch from Shop-Decks to another gameplan you'll be thankfull for this descision. If you'll use proxies in your upcoming meta I would tend to that solution.

If you want/have to play without proxies starting with Shops would be better. But I doubt that would Be a Smart descision

[Will]

If you get to use Proxies where you play, Shops are one of the cheaper decks to build.

Any shop deck, minus power and shops, is probably less than $200 for lock pieces, welders. wastelands, etc.

If you don't get to use proxies where you are from, Shops first, Moxes after.  You can still use Ancient Tombs, or Talismans/Ingots/etc for artifact acceleration until you get more moxen.

I just priced out my Espresso Stax deck which does not have any power or Shops yet and it came out to $546 from Gunslinga's sales thread on MOTL (The only pimp stuff I have are Jap. Wastes and Lodestones), oh and I am missing a Maze of Ith but still the deck is pretty expensive even at 10 or 15 proxy.  IMO if you are playing in proxy tournaments then you don't need any of the cards and therefore Shops get the nod because unlike power they could go up in price.  If you are in a no proxy environment then get power first because that is necessary or at least played in almost every deck. 

[Delha]

...Shops get the nod because unlike power they could go up in price.

What makes you say that Shops can go up while power cannot? Any Shop list I can think of runs power, while the inverse is of course untrue.

[Royal Ass.]

If you play in a Proxy Meta than you have time to take things slower in your purchasing quest for Power/Shops.  In this scenario I wouldn't necessarily look for one of the two at the exclusion of the other.  I would look for both and take which deal is best at the time.  If you looking for Shops but see a great deal come up on a Mox Ruby, then get the Mox when the deal is good.  There is no rush to buy if you can proxy in the meantime - so go for the best deal.   I always like to bring some Cash to a tournament or know where the closest ATM is because you never know who will be there needing money and willing to unload a Mox at a cheap price so that they can have cash in hand that day.  It might not be the exact card you need or want at the moment but the deal might be too good to pass up.  I've picked up quite a few big ticket cards this way.

But if you must chose one or the other I would go with Power because it so universal.

[RisingWater]

I guess after hearing everyones opinions going with power first does seem like the more logical. Unless of course theres a deal that I dont want to pass up.

Question though, there doesn't seem to be too many tourneys in my area. I moved to Louisiana about two years ago from up by chicago and there were all kinds of things going on in the city. Here though everyone seems to be stuck on type 2. I dont even have anyone to practice with or playtest with because none of them have decks that can compete. Im running a TPS deck right now with no power that my friends refuse to play against because its "too good" ....me having played in a bigger area before though have seen what really good decks look like and they dont even have a clue. Are there any places in Louisiana or Texas that have regular vintage tournaments? Or even just groupings of people to play with that would challenge me? The people here are among the mindset that things like Lotus Petal arent even worth playing with because it isnt any good lol

[Will]

...Shops get the nod because unlike power they could go up in price.

What makes you say that Shops can go up while power cannot? Any Shop list I can think of runs power, while the inverse is of course untrue.

I'm saying this because Power has been essentially the same price since around 2007 while Workshops have fluctuated.  Also, I won't falsely claim to be an expert on card distribution or the like but it seems reasonable to assume that there are less Antiquities cards floating around than Unlimited cards.  The main point is that Power prices have remained stable for 3ish years while Workshop prices have not.  

Question though, there doesn't seem to be too many tourneys in my area. I moved to Louisiana about two years ago from up by chicago and there were all kinds of things going on in the city. Here though everyone seems to be stuck on type 2. I dont even have anyone to practice with or playtest with because none of them have decks that can compete. Im running a TPS deck right now with no power that my friends refuse to play against because its "too good" ....me having played in a bigger area before though have seen what really good decks look like and they dont even have a clue. Are there any places in Louisiana or Texas that have regular vintage tournaments? Or even just groupings of people to play with that would challenge me? The people here are among the mindset that things like Lotus Petal arent even worth playing with because it isnt any good lol

One possible solution to this would be building another deck (with proxies/ as many real cards as possible) so that you can actually play with real decks rather than people's T2/EDH/Casual decks and hopefully create interest in the format.  The problem with this process is that it will likely take a while and won't necessarily work out.  
PS: Not to backseat mod but this seems like a topic that would better fit somewhere else even though it involves Workshops.  

[Delha]

I'm saying this because Power has been essentially the same price since around 2007 while Workshops have fluctuated.  Also, I won't falsely claim to be an expert on card distribution or the like but it seems reasonable to assume that there are less Antiquities cards floating around than Unlimited cards.  The main point is that Power prices have remained stable for 3ish years while Workshop prices have not.

By the same token, their value is also more likely to drop. At a blind guess, I'd assume now is a bad time to buy Shops, thanks to MUD probably driving up demand.

[o uncola o]

I'm saying this because Power has been essentially the same price since around 2007 while Workshops have fluctuated.  Also, I won't falsely claim to be an expert on card distribution or the like but it seems reasonable to assume that there are less Antiquities cards floating around than Unlimited cards.  The main point is that Power prices have remained stable for 3ish years while Workshop prices have not.

By the same token, their value is also more likely to drop. At a blind guess, I'd assume now is a bad time to buy Shops, thanks to MUD probably driving up demand.

Also less demand for shops.  More archtypes run power than run shops. 

[Delha]

Also less demand for shops.  More archtypes run power than run shops.

I was referring to the value of Shops relative to themselves over time, not relative to that of power.

[TheShop]

buy the power first as it brings you within the proxy limit for everything all at once if you decide to play something different.

[Will]

Shops are more of an investment in the terms of buying with the idea that they will go up.  I agree completely that if you are worried about proxies or plan to play no proxy locally (probably not a good idea) then get Power first because otherwise you can't really play any decks since if you just had Workshops your Stax deck would probably not be very good.  As far as Power having more demand than Shops that Power is the most widely used prize for Vintage Tournaments and that drives the demand up.  RisingWater, why do you actually want to get Power/Shops/Bazaars?

[Delha]

Shops are more of an investment in the terms of buying with the idea that they will go up.

My point was that if one is considering this from an investment perspective, Shops are probably a bad call. You always want to buy low and sell high, and with MUD doing well, I assume prices are currently high.

[RisingWater]

RisingWater, why do you actually want to get Power/Shops/Bazaars?

Ive always been a huge vintage fan but played casually or in local tournaments with little to no power. Now that im getting older and being able to invest in the game a little more, Id like to start travelling and playing in bigger tournaments (mostly because of the bigger player base) .... I feel like im stuck in a rut and everyone that I play with is below my skill level. Id really love to start being able to play with people that are better than me and will challenge the way I build decks and my thought process in playing. Its the only way im going to get any better at a game I love.

To even be able to place decently in the bigger areas it seems like almost every single deck is running power and it would be a little onesided bringing a deck that wasn't running it to a tournament that 90% of the people were. It would feel like the whole "knife to a gunfight" thing

[TheShop]

Shops are more of an investment in the terms of buying with the idea that they will go up.

My point was that if one is considering this from an investment perspective, Shops are probably a bad call. You always want to buy low and sell high, and with MUD doing well, I assume prices are currently high.

scars may change the price dramatically like mirrodin 1 did.

[Delha]

Shops are more of an investment in the terms of buying with the idea that they will go up.

My point was that if one is considering this from an investment perspective, Shops are probably a bad call. You always want to buy low and sell high, and with MUD doing well, I assume prices are currently high.

scars may change the price dramatically like mirrodin 1 did.

That's a good point. I'd like to believe R&D has learned their lesson since then, but I wouldn't be so brash as to rule out the possibility. Could be a gamble either way.

[metalhead666]

I would recommend that you not decide what to buy ahead of time.  Buy whatever comes your way at a decent price.  If money is a big issue, get more played cards as they are cheaper, BUT, as soon as you have a decent condition Shop/Jewel, you will want to upgrade the condition of your cards.

I have been playing Vintage/Type 1 since 2003 and Workshops since 2004-2005.  I decided to finally get the higher priced cards and was in the same boat you are in about 2 years ago.  I got 2 Workshops at GP Chicago in 2009 because one was completely in trade at values on my cards that were well over what I had paid for them, and the other shop was at a good price.  In the fall I picked up a Ruby and a Jet from a friend cause he decided to sell his power and the prices were really good (I later sold the Jet at $50 more than I paid for it).  Over the winter another friend of mine decided to sell his power and I bought his Jet, Emerald, Sapphire, and Lotus for prices lower than a dealer will sell them for.  I got my last 2 Shops soon after that.

Through my quest I have found that Shops are harder to find than power and ebay is NOT the best place to get more expensive cards such as power, shops, bazaars...etc.   You can get really good deals on ebay but, they come from less reliable sellers, new sellers, bad sellers...etc, and I know several people that have received fake cards from those auctions.  Auctions from good and well reviewed/feedbacked sellers tend to go for more than they are worth.