Koth, The Red PW

[Troy_Costisick]

So here we go again:



Guess I'll have to keep wishing for a decent red planeswalker.  Let's see, this one- in order to pump himself up- makes my land vulnerable to creature kill.  Hurts himself to ritual.  That might be nice in Extended where Banefire is still Legal, but total meh in Vintage.  Then kills himself to turn my lands into prodical sorcerers.  Whatev.  Slap it with a Pithing Needle and move on.  (yeah, yeah, I know.  He's savage tech against Oath).

Peace,

-Troy

[BruiZar]

What do you think it will do for standard/extended?

In standard, the guy comes down on turn 4, ramps you to 10 mana on turn 5 and 12 mana on turn 6. He is also cheaper than Elspeth Tirel, and finishes off her tokens and other planeswalkers well. Plus, he untaps the mountain with the + ability, which means you can attack for 4 immediately or keep a mana open for bolt.

[Lemnear]

Creating up to 5 mana in turn 5 is pretty Hardcore for standard and he's the best planeswalker in the set. But nothing relevant for vintage. I can't see wizards printing a vintage planeswalker with plus-abilities like destroy target artifact, and Deals damage to Controller of artifact equal to cc, and a Lightning bolt for -1

[Troy_Costisick]

What do you think it will do for standard/extended?

In standard, the guy comes down on turn 4, ramps you to 10 mana on turn 5 and 12 mana on turn 6.

In Standard?  I think he'll power out Inferno Titans and Wurmcoul Engines in Red Decks all the time.  Like all the recent PWs, he'll be good in Standard.  The thing about all the high CC cards they're making now, tho, is that it's going to make countermagic in Standard and eventually in Extended very strong.  If everyone is loading their decks with six drops, suddenly Cancel doesn't look so bad and Mana Leak looks like an absolute beast.  Heck, even Spell Pierce as anti PW tech might get played in Standard.  So all those T2 guys who hate permission are going to run right into a bunch of it- especially- if SOM has a halfway decent counterspell in it somewhere (and I predict it will).

Peace,

-Troy

[madmanmike25]

This guy looks pretty good to me.  You dont have to play it in mono red though, just use Magus of the Moon and now you have a lot of mountains.  Pinging mountains.  Sign me up.  Seem like everything Valakut should have been.  I can think of a lot of targets in Vintage.  Attacking with a 4/4 isn't so bad either for 4 mana.

How is this not decent????

[BruiZar]

I was thinking about Dragon Stompy for this dude. You can drop a Magus of the Moon and a Koth on the same turn, then start bashing with mountains for the win.

[DubDub]

The thing about all the high CC cards they're making now, tho, is that it's going to make countermagic in Standard and eventually in Extended very strong.  If everyone is loading their decks with six drops, suddenly Cancel doesn't look so bad and Mana Leak looks like an absolute beast.  Heck, even Spell Pierce as anti PW tech might get played in Standard.  So all those T2 guys who hate permission are going to run right into a bunch of it- especially- if SOM has a halfway decent counterspell in it somewhere (and I predict it will).

Interesting thought, though there are still plenty of countermagic resistant things running around standard/new extended:
Cascade (BBE, Enlisted Wurm, Enigma Sphinx)
"When you cast" (Eldrazi Titans, of which Cascade is really a single application)
"Can't be countered" (Autumn's Veil, Terra Stomper, Gaea's Revenge etc.)
Recursive (Vengevine, Emeria the Sky Ruin)

[zimagic]

What do you think it will do for standard/extended? In standard, the guy comes down on turn 4, ramps you to 10 mana on turn 5 and 12 mana on turn 6.

In Standard?  I think he'll power out Inferno Titans and Wurmcoul Engines in Red Decks all the time. 

Not sure that he'll necessarily go the fatties route in T2 though that's certainly a possibility. Destructive Force + Mana Leak mana turn 5 should be able to kill most games pretty quickly seeing as you'll be attacking with 4/4's for the next few turns. Should your opponent stabilise somehow, you just ultimate Koth and ping for the game.

It seems very little, but I think that merely a reprint of the "Diamond" mana stone cycle or similiar will completely turn Standard towards a very control enviornment.

[BruiZar]

t1 Mountain
t2 Mountain, Everflowing Chalice for 1
t3 Mountain Koth, Untap Land
t4 7 mana destructive force, play mountain. This gives you 3 mana at your disposal on turn 5, with an empty board and a planeswalker on your side.

[Tha Gunslinga]

This guy seems pretty good in non-Vintage formats.  I don't know if it'll be as format-defining as Jace, but it seems really strong.

[zimagic]

t1 Mountain
t2 Mountain, Everflowing Chalice for 1
t3 Mountain Koth, Untap Land
t4 7 mana destructive force, play mountain. This gives you 3 mana at your disposal on turn 5, with an empty board and a planeswalker on your side.

True, but I played it turn 5 to have the additional mana to pay for the Mana Leak. Presuming that the Chalice stays in play, your version is the obvious play against non-blue. Though your version actually gives you 4 mana if you can play a second mountain on turn 5 (as Koth can untap one). What's most exciting about your play is that it needs only 3 spells (1 Koth, 1 Destructive Force, 1 Chalice) and 4 land out of the first 10-11 cards.

[TheShop]

Red hecatomb...yay!  I always liked hecatomb as a casual card.  Be nice if they made one that didn't require saccing stuff and was still black, but this is funny too.

[serracollector]

Do not forget you have the new mox as well as chalice and there was a red ritual printed in M11 I beleive.  RDW of some sort could easily come out of this.  You got that new artifact dragon that's deed on a stick too.  with the red planeswalker and him you can easily wipe the opponents board.

[brianpk80]

It would be solid in Vintage in the right shell.  Magus of the Moon aggro-control perhaps. 

[nineisnoone]

I'm guessing emblem is like a enchantment or something? 

Kinda cool.  I think he's going to be pretty strong in Standard.  I could see it making ramp very very good.  Being both a 4/4 beater that gives you back a land in general, and acceleration that sets up for big ramp plays is just pretty nuts.  Both him and his creatures being safe from Lightning Bolt is pretty awesome too.

My main issue is that his 3rd ability is redundant when drawn in multiples.  Though the ability itself is pretty pretty good.

In Vintage, there really is no reason to run him.  The 2nd ability is usually going to be useless as is the 3rd is a lot just for that.  The 1st one is decent enough, but I don't see it being integral to anything.

[Wagner]

My main issue is that his 3rd ability is redundant when drawn in multiples.

It's an ultimate ability, you're not supposed to get to use it more than once in a game...

[nineisnoone]

My main issue is that his 3rd ability is redundant when drawn in multiples.

It's an ultimate ability, you're not supposed to get to use it more than once in a game...

I'm just commenting that it would have been a hell of a lot better if they made them stack, that's all.   

[Wagner]

My main issue is that his 3rd ability is redundant when drawn in multiples.

It's an ultimate ability, you're not supposed to get to use it more than once in a game...

I'm just commenting that it would have been a hell of a lot better if they made them stack, that's all.   

If you get the ultimate online, have time to cast a second Koth and then get his ultimate too before winning, you are definitively doing something much much wrong.

[nineisnoone]

My main issue is that his 3rd ability is redundant when drawn in multiples.

It's an ultimate ability, you're not supposed to get to use it more than once in a game...

I'm just commenting that it would have been a hell of a lot better if they made them stack, that's all.   

If you get the ultimate online, have time to cast a second Koth and then get his ultimate too before winning, you are definitively doing something much much wrong.

LOL.  You do realize that you can trigger his Ultimate on the 3rd turn right counting the turn he came into play?  At that point, he's only done 8 damage.

Jeez, are you really going to give me a hard time on this?

[Evenpence]

He's pretty amazing for cube draft, which is 80% of Magic I've been playing lately, so I'm happy.

[Wagner]

My main issue is that his 3rd ability is redundant when drawn in multiples.

It's an ultimate ability, you're not supposed to get to use it more than once in a game...

I'm just commenting that it would have been a hell of a lot better if they made them stack, that's all.   

If you get the ultimate online, have time to cast a second Koth and then get his ultimate too before winning, you are definitively doing something much much wrong.

But then he dies... so to get a second ultimate you have to cast another one, or wait another turn so he stays alive and then do another 4 attacking mountains.

Anyway, agree there is not much point to this, it's not going to happen anyway

LOL.  You do realize that you can trigger his Ultimate on the 3rd turn right counting the turn he came into play?  At that point, he's only done 8 damage.

Jeez, are you really going to give me a hard time on this?