The Last Crusade: White Weenie!

[Stormanimagus]

So I've seen a lot of Fish pilots attempt to design decks to answer the Shop menace. I've seen a lot of them fail miserably (including myself at times). Here's my current ideology regarding this. If you want a deck to have best consistency in a large field play something like Noble Fish with Daze + Steel Sabotage + some number of Green Sun's Zenith and the full 4 Null Rod. That deck will have a solid shot against much of the field (save perhaps GushBond) and will do OK vs. Shops, but not remarkably good. A deck that I DO think will do remarkably good vs. Shops & Fish and slower Trygon Tezz decks is the following White Weenie list. Brace yourself:


The Last Crusade

Land (21)
12 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (12):
4 Aether Vial (1)
1 Black Lotus (0)
1 Lotus Petal (0)
1 Mox Pearl (0)
2 Umezawa’s Jitte (2)
3 Sword Of Fire And Ice (3)

Creatures (23):
4 Student Of Warfare (W)
4 Leonin Arbiter (1W)
3 Kataki, War’s Wage (1W)
4 Leonin Relic-Warder (WW)
4 True Believer (WW)
4 Mirran Crusader (1WW)

Instants (4):
4 Path To Exile (W)

Sideboard
4 Leyline Of Sanctity (2WW)
4 Phyrexian Revoker (2)
4 Relic Of Progenitus (1)
3 Ravenous Trap (2BB)

This deck attempts to lock the opponent out of a mana base (Arbiter + Wastes) while also potentially 1-shotting them with Mirran Crusader + Either Equipment. The interaction of Double Strike with both Jitte and SoFI is ridiculous:

1. Equipped with Jitte = Attack for 2 First strike damage, add 2 counters to Jitte, and then deal another 6. That's 8 damage on the first swing with Jitte. If he gets the chance to swing a second time you'll deal 16 (remove 2 counters before First Strike damage making him a 6/6 and then remove 2 more before regular making him a 10/10.

2. Equipped with SoFI = Attack for 4 first strike and ping for 2 drawing a card. Deal 4 more regular damage and ping for 2 drawing another card. That's 12 damage and 2 cards. Not bad.

So that IS the finisher of the deck and it is potentially far more brutal than Tarmogoyf. Basically, I think this deck is the natural progression away from G/W Beats decks that allows you to truly target Shops as a strategy without totally nuking your game elsewhere.

YES this deck doesn't have tools like Qasali Pridemage or Gaddock Teeg or Noble Hierarch. YES I don't give a crap. Will the lack of green slightly decrease your %'s vs. Blue decks? Yes? YES I couldn't care less. You don't want to bring this deck to a wide open field. You want this deck at the helm in a NYSE type of field littered with Shops, Oath and the occasional Fish & Blue. The Oath Match-up is something I'll have to test far more, but it seems to me like True Believer AND Leyline of Sanctity have to count for something in that matchup yes?

Anyway, feedback is, of course, welcome!

-Storm

[beder]

Hi storm,

I like the idea, really i like it. Racing the opponent with white weenie is just so cool.

I would just have 2 connected suggestions, based more on a global metagame than on your specific one :
- add some fast mana producers - sol ring and mana crypt - to make sure that you can really use quickly and efficiently your extremely powerfull equipment,
- replace the True Believer with Phyrexian Revoker.

I know that you use True Believer because of oath in your meta, but in my opinion, Phyrexian is just the way to go main deck nowadays cause it complements so well your mana denial tactic while being versatile. Especially in a build like yours which may have to wait turn 3 or 4 to have   available.
For that kind of build which use aether vial and lots of strip effects, I would move true in side and phyrexian in main. I tested it and I just loved it. That's a marvellous little creature and if you add sol ring and mana crypt, it is very easy to play.

Just my 2 cents,

Nicolas

EDIT : I would also perhaps replace Mirran Crusader by Kor Duelist and go more along the equipment road, like it has been suggested by other players.

[Sextiger]

Should probably squeeze in a Stoneforge Mystic or two since your decks seems to run pretty well off equipment. 

[Eastman]

What about ethersworn canonist?  He should be really good against tps and gushbond type stuff, since it stops them from going off.

[vassago]

sol ring and mana crypt...Phyrexian Revoker...

Stoneforge Mystic

ethersworn canonist

I agree with all of these sentiments, they make sense and would make this something worth beating people over the head with, especially stoneforge mystic.

Path to exile seems loose if you're trying to mana screw them in some games. Can we play fetches? Also, can we play Abolish?

[Ozymandias]

If you're already off Rods, you might want to consider Chrome Mox/Mox Diamond as accelerants--they're only really antisynergystic with Kataki.

[heiner]

-Isn't NULL ROD the reason to play such decs?
-Isn't Noble Hierarch THE best card vs. Shops?
-Would it hurt soo much to play G/W instead of mono W?

The dec has a VERY strong land disruption suite, however, I believe Null Rods are required to handle the moxen. An opponent that plays a lot of basic lands or goes broken early with moxen will be too far ahead.

[tito del monte]

I've been goldfishing White Weenie for a while now, although I cobbled together something with Vials, Chalices and Phyrexian Revokers main, which may well be wrong as it made it hard to run Kataki. Stoneforge Mystic and equipments felt pretty slow and clunky to me, but might have to revisit them. If I did, I think it would be to run Skullclamp over SoFaI - just so much cheaper to get up and running..

The other card I was pleased to stumble upon whilst looking into stuff for the deck is Abolish - you easily run enough plains to support a couple, and having free artifact removal seems pretty saucy against shops.

Glad to see WW getting some discussion, I think the combination of Arbiter, Relic Warder and the nine-waste manabase might finally it viable.

[Stormanimagus]

-Isn't NULL ROD the reason to play such decs?
-Isn't Noble Hierarch THE best card vs. Shops?
-Would it hurt soo much to play G/W instead of mono W?

The dec has a VERY strong land disruption suite, however, I believe Null Rods are required to handle the moxen. An opponent that plays a lot of basic lands or goes broken early with moxen will be too far ahead.

As far as Null Rod is concerned I believe that it only belongs in a Fish deck that can support FoW to protect it. The reason to not include it is simple: Aether Vial. Aether Vial is perhaps the best out to Shops I know of. I would say that Noble Hierarch pales in comparison to Aether Vial.

-Storm

[Sextiger]

I know you probably want this mono white, but this setup as G/W would also seem really strong.  Remove the Student, the Ghostquarters, and the Relic-Warders for G/W mana base, Noble Hierarch, and Pridemages would seem to make this pretty strong.  Mirran Crusader with exalted triggers seems pretty disgusting.   

[Blue Lotus]

contested battlefield? Its essentially a hasty man land with power = to the number of creatures you control. The color requirements of this deck might be too much though.

[scipio]

Very interesting deck.  I agree that this deck doesn't want null rod, given the vials and equipment.  I also think that canonist and revoker would be strong inclusions.  In that case, adding in 2-3 ancient tombs could be a real bonus, and at least as strong as adding in sol ring and mana crypt since it works better with Kataki.  Increasing your artifact density would make 1-2 enlightened tutors useful as well, even though it doesn't play week with arbiter, it plays better than stoneforge.  Forget about adding green - it completely changes the focus of the deck.  IMO, G/W is a null rod deck.

But what to cut?  Kataki, Relic-Warder, Arbiter, and path/swords seem like auto-includes.  The 12-14 slots to play with seem to be crusader, student of warfare, true believer, and ghost quarter (worthless against most blue decks, doubly so against gush).  I'm curious how effective student of warfare has been?  I'm guessing he never makes it to level 7, so you're after the level 2 ability of 3/3 1st strike to take out Lodestone while playing around spheres?  And don't you need that mana during you're turn to pay Kataki costs for your vials/equipment?  Do you really need 4 crusader's?  The Kor Duelist seems to do what you want at a much lower cost.  If you're worried about oath, preacher and true believer are options out of the board.  Orim's Chant is also a good sideboard choice to stall gush-bond and ritual decks (I use silence since I'm cheap).  The abolish is an interesting suggestion, more so if you consider shoving in the old classic land tax.

Final answers: -4 students, -2 crusader, -2 ghost quarter, 4 true believer to SB (leyline is too random)
+ 2 ancient tomb, +2 enlightened tutor, +4 duelist, +2 revoker, + 2 canonist

Personally, I like a 2/2 split of arbiter and mindcensor, but that's just me.

[Stormanimagus]

Very interesting deck.  I agree that this deck doesn't want null rod, given the vials and equipment.  I also think that canonist and revoker would be strong inclusions.  In that case, adding in 2-3 ancient tombs could be a real bonus, and at least as strong as adding in sol ring and mana crypt since it works better with Kataki.  Increasing your artifact density would make 1-2 enlightened tutors useful as well, even though it doesn't play week with arbiter, it plays better than stoneforge.  Forget about adding green - it completely changes the focus of the deck.  IMO, G/W is a null rod deck.

But what to cut?  Kataki, Relic-Warder, Arbiter, and path/swords seem like auto-includes.  The 12-14 slots to play with seem to be crusader, student of warfare, true believer, and ghost quarter (worthless against most blue decks, doubly so against gush).  I'm curious how effective student of warfare has been?  I'm guessing he never makes it to level 7, so you're after the level 2 ability of 3/3 1st strike to take out Lodestone while playing around spheres?  And don't you need that mana during you're turn to pay Kataki costs for your vials/equipment?  Do you really need 4 crusader's?  The Kor Duelist seems to do what you want at a much lower cost.  If you're worried about oath, preacher and true believer are options out of the board.  Orim's Chant is also a good sideboard choice to stall gush-bond and ritual decks (I use silence since I'm cheap).  The abolish is an interesting suggestion, more so if you consider shoving in the old classic land tax.

Final answers: -4 students, -2 crusader, -2 ghost quarter, 4 true believer to SB (leyline is too random)
+ 2 ancient tomb, +2 enlightened tutor, +4 duelist, +2 revoker, + 2 canonist

Personally, I like a 2/2 split of arbiter and mindcensor, but that's just me.

Thing is, Arbiter Stacks. You want 4 so you can see at least 1 and possibly 2. A 2/2 split means you'll have hands with only Mindcensor or neither. You really want the Arbiter because he guarantees that you'll stop Fetches (provided they don't have enough mana) whereas the Mindcensor will often not stop them as they get to reveal 4 cards and often they'll find a land.

As for Duelist I think he's way too cute. Without equipment he is a 2/2 beater and that is just not going to cut the mustard in Vintage. With Student you have a 3/3 First Strike on turn 2 consistently if you need it. This is key when you are facing down opposing Lodestones.

I agree that True Believer can probably be in the SB and that perhaps Leyline can be cut, but I don't think Ethersworn Canonist is the answer. I have played TPS for years and have never been hindered much by the Canonist. If he weren't an artifact I'd play him in a heartbeat, but that artifact status means that Hurkyl's Recall will bounce him all day long. He might work as a SB card because you can hope that they'll side out Hurkyl's against you, but that is not a sure thing. I'll have to mess around with him before I pass final judgement, but I like that Leyline Of Sanctity is hard to deal with.

-Storm

EDIT: Note also (though I think this has been pointed out) that Ethersworn Canonist does not stop the playing of artifacts and a lot of modern storm decks are utilizing cards like Sensei's Top and Mox Opal as well as the full artifact accel. That doesn't bode well for Canonist. Basically you'd be running him to answer Gush-bond and I'm not sure that he, by himself is enough.

EDIT #2: Important to note that True Believer and Leyline Of Sanctity actually protect you from being the target of Hurkyl's Recall and hence Canonist + Believer can be a good 1-2 punch.

[serracollector]

First off with 9 strips, 2nd turn 3/3 Student of Warfare is not guaranteed. 

2nd off, Kataki and Vial/Equips/Jewlery is a horrible combination if I ever seen one.

lastly, G/W decks do not need null rod by any means, with 4 quasali, 4 relic-warders, and 4 revokers, one can simply "disenchant" or "pithining needle" any artifacts anyways, while still running vial and skullclamp (or jitte/sofi if you choose)

Mirran Crusader is the only cool thing in this deck, and the only reason is because with skull clamp is can kill lodestone/golems/jugs, and it cant be blocked by sphinx or quasali or goyf/confidant.

Mono white would need something along the lines of Gaddock Teeg for it to work in todays meta.  Without Teeg, mono white cant do anything against Force of will, Gifts, FOF, Tezz, Jace, new Tezz, or Gush.

[Stormanimagus]

First off with 9 strips, 2nd turn 3/3 Student of Warfare is not guaranteed. 

2nd off, Kataki and Vial/Equips/Jewlery is a horrible combination if I ever seen one.

lastly, G/W decks do not need null rod by any means, with 4 quasali, 4 relic-warders, and 4 revokers, one can simply "disenchant" or "pithining needle" any artifacts anyways, while still running vial and skullclamp (or jitte/sofi if you choose)

Mirran Crusader is the only cool thing in this deck, and the only reason is because with skull clamp is can kill lodestone/golems/jugs, and it cant be blocked by sphinx or quasali or goyf/confidant.

Mono white would need something along the lines of Gaddock Teeg for it to work in todays meta.  Without Teeg, mono white cant do anything against Force of will, Gifts, FOF, Tezz, Jace, new Tezz, or Gush.

First off: Jewelry? I run 1 Lotus, 1 Mox and 1 Petal. That is 3 artifacts other than Vials + Equip. Usually Vial is fine to pay for against Shops and you'll be siding out the Kataki elsewhere anyway. Kataki could be in the SB but I think that is a meta call. I would rather prepare for Shops game 1 than other stuff as going into game 3 on the play is critical in that match-up. Kataki + the artifacts this deck runs is absolutely fine and should rarely mana screw you. If the equipment won't win you the game quickly (i.e- you don't have a crusader or a clear path for your other critters) DON'T PLAY IT with an active Kataki. This is sorta like the argument against running Null Rod and Karn in the same deck. Joe Brown proved that argument false pretty definitively if you ask me.

Secondly, I'm not saying that G/W needs Null Rod and can't, instead run Vial. Someone else stated that. What I am saying is that I don't think Green gives you much other than Gaddock Teeg and that is not enough by itself to warrant the splash in my mind. You significantly weaken your mana base and hamper your ability to run Arbiter if you run G/W. Let me put it to you this way. Would you rather run Teeg or Arbiter vs. a typical Tezz control deck? I thin I'd rather have the arbiter in play. The only deck I'd rather have Teeg for is Gush.

FoW as a reason to run Gaddock? Seriously? Are we having this debate? Aether Vial Aether Vial AETHER VIAL! That is your answer to FoW. It is pretty well documented to answer the free counterspell.

@earlier poster regarding Path vs. Swords. With the inclusion of Arbiter you have a way to null their search and it is critical to race in certain match-ups. Even if they GET the land it may not matter if you just Exiled their Sphinx. This deck has a good racing engine in Crusader + Equipment. Why risk Time-Walking your opponent who is trying to build up to Vault/Key or Tendrils with STP on a BSC for 11 life? That 11 life might buy them the turn they need to go bonkers just as much if not more than 1 more land if you are staring them down with a SoFI equipped Crusader. The Arbiter is the gravy on this card. It could be in the deck sans Arbiter. It is also the stones vs. MUD.

I'm not saying that mono-white is better vs. Gush decks than G/W. It very well may be significantly weaker. But is is far stronger vs. Shops and Fish and Oath IMO, and those are the decks to beat right now I think. Gush-bond is too, but it still isn't performing at a dominant enough level IMO. This deck is not designed to beat any deck in the field. It is a metagame deck designed to beat Shops mainly. I probably would take Noble Fish to a tourney over this in a heartbeat.

Mainly this is a deck to prove a point to all those who whine about not being able to beat shops. You can. This does. Consistently. There is a foil to every strategy, no matter how air-tight it might seem. I have been working with models of G/W decks to attack the field. They are not bad at all. This is better IMO. This attacks Shops and Fish, and Oath quite well. Noble Fish is still the best Fish deck in the format IMO. Perhaps this will change with a new printing, but, for now, I think there is a lot of proof in the pudding for Noble Fish. This deck has 0 proof, but a lot of Cockatrice testing that shows me that it has potential. Any deck that can man-handle Shops the way this deck does deserves a second look if you ask me.

Those are my two cents,

-Storm