Vintage Infect

[Darkenslight]

Hmm...I wonder what would happen if you took MUD and gave it added Infect shenanigans?  Either splashing Black for Tainted Strike and other goodies, or taking it Blue for a counter subtheme.

[bun]

I think Mud is a lot stronger without splashing any colors, much less for infect.

[Dr.KnowMaD]

Hmm...I wonder what would happen if you took MUD and gave it added Infect shenanigans?  Either splashing Black for Tainted Strike and other goodies, or taking it Blue for a counter subtheme.

You might be interested in my BayouShop list.  Its InfectShop.  

I still don't think that gush is effective in any version of this deck, though, because I think any version of this deck needs to run inkmoth.  But I'll think about what else might work here.

So you think it is ok to return your win condition for a ninja to draw a card but not ok to use your other lands to tutor/draw grow and swing with a big win condition to end the game?

Standstill could still be good and I see the synergy with ninja.  It just seem clunky and far from optimal.  

Have you tryed Frantic Search yet?  I haven't in this but I do have a FranticStorm list I've been playing, and 4xFrantic is so good with lands that like to untap like Academy and Library of course.

DrKnowMaD

[bun]

Frantic Search is Restricted, last time I checked.  Has that changed?

I could see splashing one or two copies of tainted strike in a grow deck, maybe.  I don;t really see a good way to work it in anywhere else.  I'd definitely be interested in seeing your bayoushop list though.

[Darkenslight]

I think that this is the 'core' of a Vintage Infect-based deck:

4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
3-4 Viridian Corruptor
4 ESG

That leaves a LOT of room for other cards.  Possible inclusions are Putrefax (instagib with 'zerk) and Mr.Mxyzptlk (aka Skithiryx) in a GB Rocklike shell.  If you want turbospeed, possibly going for Dark Ritual and going for athe Black cards.

[TopSecret]

Frantic Search is Restricted, last time I checked.  Has that changed?

Yes, they unrestricted frantic search.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrvintage
Sometimes in the past they've waited a little bit before updating the list after changes, but they generally get around to it.

[bun]

Huh, that's pretty cool.

I still disagree with the concept of an infect deck as being creature heavy, at least with what we have so far.  Until there are some fish-ish utility creatures with infect or something insane like an infecty psychatog, it just won't be competitive.

[TopSecret]

Yeah. Also all the two card combos that win with infect appear to be too much mana and or win more. Putrefax/Berserk is six mana all in the same turn. If you've got that much ready there's other combos that are better and both those cards are kind of dead until resolving both.

Tinker for Blightsteel is good. But I think if at any point you start trying to factor in the word 'Infect' from Blightsteel into your deck decisions, you're going down the wrong road or are just the best genius ever perhaps.

As far as I can tell, the entire Infect mechanic is like this terrible black hole. Like, it is going to waste so many people's time and nothing anyone says will change that. I mean, Tainted Strike/Precursor Golem? So plausible, right? You could make a whole deck about it right? Just add in some Berserk and you're all set with winning the game cause then you can play Lodestone Golem too to combo with Berserk/Tainted Strike for random wins. And neither Precursor Golem and Lodestone are awful by themselves. But do you see what this is? This is just poison sucking you into it's twisted little game. That Tainted Strike could be Assault Strobe and it would be better, cause even without Berserk being drawn Assault Strobe still adds to damage, whereas Tainted Strike doesn't. I mean, you could just say that Force of Will/Precursor Golem is a combo here, cause if you resolve both those in a row you are probably winning. And one of those cards isn't dead on it's own. Wait, isn't Lodestone Golem/Precursor Golem also a combo, cause if you resolve both and attack with both, you probably always win and also slow down the opponent at the same time. Wait, why hasn't someone made this deck? Oh, yeah. It's called Shop Aggro.

Like I am all for combos and whatnot but I guess as far as viability of Infect goes at this point I am just not believing it. I would like to be proven wrong. Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm certainly not omniscient. But God dammit if there is a chance to stop people from falling into that abyss of considering Poison's Viability I would like to take this chance to tell them: Don't. Just don't. As far as I can tell, it's mathematically impossible. Don't waste your time.

If you still wanna do it after this warning, then go ahead. But I just felt obligated to say something. I hate Poison. So much.

[Darkenslight]

Yeah. Also all the two card combos that win with infect appear to be too much mana and or win more. Putrefax/Berserk is six mana all in the same turn. If you've got that much ready there's other combos that are better and both those cards are kind of dead until resolving both.

Tinker for Blightsteel is good. But I think if at any point you start trying to factor in the word 'Infect' from Blightsteel into your deck decisions, you're going down the wrong road or are just the best genius ever perhaps.

As far as I can tell, the entire Infect mechanic is like this terrible black hole. Like, it is going to waste so many people's time and nothing anyone says will change that. I mean, Tainted Strike/Precursor Golem? So plausible, right? You could make a whole deck about it right? Just add in some Berserk and you're all set with winning the game cause then you can play Lodestone Golem too to combo with Berserk/Tainted Strike for random wins. And neither Precursor Golem and Lodestone are awful by themselves. But do you see what this is? This is just poison sucking you into it's twisted little game. That Tainted Strike could be Assault Strobe and it would be better, cause even without Berserk being drawn Assault Strobe still adds to damage, whereas Tainted Strike doesn't. I mean, you could just say that Force of Will/Precursor Golem is a combo here, cause if you resolve both those in a row you are probably winning. And one of those cards isn't dead on it's own. Wait, isn't Lodestone Golem/Precursor Golem also a combo, cause if you resolve both and attack with both, you probably always win and also slow down the opponent at the same time. Wait, why hasn't someone made this deck? Oh, yeah. It's called Shop Aggro.

Like I am all for combos and whatnot but I guess as far as viability of Infect goes at this point I am just not believing it. I would like to be proven wrong. Maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm certainly not omniscient. But God dammit if there is a chance to stop people from falling into that abyss of considering Poison's Viability I would like to take this chance to tell them: Don't. Just don't. As far as I can tell, it's mathematically impossible. Don't waste your time.

If you still wanna do it after this warning, then go ahead. But I just felt obligated to say something. I hate Poison. So much.

I don't know, Turn 2 kill is now possible with Mutagenic Growth (phygreen +2/+2) in Standard, and it only requires one land.  IT's darkly amusing to me that we can have a Turn 2 kill possible in Standard with Infect.

For those who don't know, the seven cards required are:

Swamp, Vector Asp, 4 Mutagenic Growth, Tainted Strike.

T1: Swamp, Asp
t2: Attack, Tainted Strike, cast all four MG, 10 Infect damage.

[TopSecret]

I don't know, Turn 2 kill is now possible with Mutagenic Growth (phygreen +2/+2) in Standard, and it only requires one land.  IT's darkly amusing to me that we can have a Turn 2 kill possible in Standard with Infect.

For those who don't know, the seven cards required are:

Swamp, Vector Asp, 4 Mutagenic Growth, Tainted Strike.

T1: Swamp, Asp
t2: Attack, Tainted Strike, cast all four MG, 10 Infect damage.

While I think Mutagenic Growth is one hell of a card, I still don't think it makes poison good in Eternal, which is my main concern.

But relating directly to the line of play you listed, I'd like to make you familiar with an old Standard deck people affectionately dubbed, Lickity Split: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/9662_Go_Rogue_or_Go_Home_Lickity_Split_in_Standard.html

The deck was AWFUL
Times and metagames change, for sure, but I just wanted to emphasize that the ability to draw all four Mutagenic Growths in one go is not necessarily good.

Poison is the devil. Don't get sucked into it's terrible game.
I can only assume that those who say such hopeful things about poison have been Infected by the disease that is the poison mechanic.
Unclean
UNCLEAN

[Beralt]

That kill for standard that involves Vector Asp doesn't really require both. You can go turn one Swamp, Asp. Turn 2 Forest Groundswell, 3 Mutagenic Growth, make Asp poisonous - win.  Totally bypassing the 4th Mutagenic and Tainted Strike.  If you go 3 Color you can do Goblin Guide and swing at them out of nowhere if you go the Tainted Strike method. But we are talking about Vintage here.

In Vintage it becomes easier with things like, Berserk, Invigorate and now Mutagenic Growth.

[Darkenslight]

I don't know, Turn 2 kill is now possible with Mutagenic Growth (phygreen +2/+2) in Standard, and it only requires one land.  IT's darkly amusing to me that we can have a Turn 2 kill possible in Standard with Infect.

For those who don't know, the seven cards required are:

Swamp, Vector Asp, 4 Mutagenic Growth, Tainted Strike.

T1: Swamp, Asp
t2: Attack, Tainted Strike, cast all four MG, 10 Infect damage.

While I think Mutagenic Growth is one hell of a card, I still don't think it makes poison good in Eternal, which is my main concern.

But relating directly to the line of play you listed, I'd like to make you familiar with an old Standard deck people affectionately dubbed, Lickity Split: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/9662_Go_Rogue_or_Go_Home_Lickity_Split_in_Standard.html

The deck was AWFUL
Times and metagames change, for sure, but I just wanted to emphasize that the ability to draw all four Mutagenic Growths in one go is not necessarily good.

Poison is the devil. Don't get sucked into it's terrible game.
I can only assume that those who say such hopeful things about poison have been Infected by the disease that is the poison mechanic.
Unclean
UNCLEAN

Oddly enough, i played that deck to a 2nd place in an FNM with WW and MGA in the field.  I also remember playing Suiblack to 4th and Lightning Coils Combo to a 4-2, with the nut hand one game hitting for over 300(!) damage turn 4.

I like the idea for Legacy, though.  I'll get to work.

[Shax]

If Infect is not good in Legacy then there is no way it will have a chance in Vintage. I can see this thing getting destroyed by Shops and Blue control decks just doing their thing against it. What cards does Vintage actually add to this besides 8 power cards, the other artifact mana, Demonic Tutor/Vampiric Tutor/Demonic Consultation/Yawgmoth's Will, compared to a Legacy build of the deck that can use four Lotus Petals? Tinker into Blightsteel Collossus? Iunno it just seems like to be that Infect in Vintage needs something made just for Infect that would give it some resilience than what it already has. Phyrexian Crusader is actually good in Legacy, but in Vintage this does not remain true.

[Beralt]

Spoiled from the Godbook

Glistener Elf G
Creature - Elf Warrior (C)
Infect
1/1

Now you can go Monogreen Infect in Vintage! On the play...

Black Lotus, Glistner Elf, Concordant Crossroads, Invigorate, Berserk.

Alternatively on the draw...
Misty Rainforest, Break for Tropical Island, Glistener Elf, Mox Emerald, Concordant Crossroads, Mutagenic Growth, Mutagenic Growth, Exile Spirit Guide, Berserk (Invigorate seems more worth it but trying to show an alternative).

[Wagner]

The 2/1infect in white seems pretty fine to me. A five turn clock without any support, this plus the green one can make a decent base now.

[That0neguy]

I think the new 2/1 is HUGE for this deck.

Turn 1: Land Excel 2/1
Turn 2: Land "+4/+4 spell" "+4/+4 spell" leads to 10 poison counters - without berserk.

Where as before the 1 power creatures required 3 pump spells or 3 turns to win.  

The new 1 drop poison guy helps a lot too, since you don't need to open yourself up to as much of an all in tactic with 2 pumps on the same creature into removal.  And also facilitates the turn 1 guy turn 2 +4/+4 Berserk option without needing any fast mana - Just the combo.

An older creature that I never really saw get discussed was Rot Wolf (or any 2/x for 3 - but rot wolf can be powered out on off color moxen or colorless sources).  He can also lead to turn 2 attacks for the win if you can get him out on the first turn.  Although Dark Ritual into one of the 3 mana 2/2s might be easier to pull off than Rot Wolf?

Also as far as vintage vs legacy goes - I think this could be a lot stronger in vintage than legacy.  In legacy, it seems like there is more maindeck creature removal to 2 or 3 for 1 you.

To throw out a decklist:

4 Glistner Elf
4 Lost Leonin
3 Blighted Agent

4 Invigorate
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Berserk

4 Daze
4 Pact of Negation
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Mistep

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
5 Mox
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Savanah
6 Fetch

My idea behind this deck is that there is really a 3 card combo here that we want to assemble - Creature + 2 Pump Spells.  Preferably the creature is the Leonin or one of the pump spells is Berserk.  Then we hope that the redundancy of the pieces will give consistent fast wins (turn 2-3).  With counterspell back up with 15 "free" counterspells, 16 pump spells, and 11 Creatures.  I am wondering if one of the counterspells should be cut for Ichorclaw Myr for more creatures.

Unfortunately for the deck - I think the biggest hurdle currently will be workshop decks packing chalice or sphere effects.  So its probably not going to do great right now with MUD running around.

I feel like this deck likely has a pretty solid clock though.  Maybe they will give us more 2/x for 1-2 mana in the future that could give the deck a bit more consistency (and preferably on color consistency).  I haven't really proxied it up or anything to give it a shot yet though (since I don't have any cards here).