Twincast

[BlackVise]

Twincast
 
Intant
Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.

I've just stumbled upon this card and am now considering its practical applications in Vintage. It seems to me that whilst it definitely has its flaws, it could have uses. As well as having obvious synergy with cards like Ancestral Recall and Time Walk, it serves as a response to an opposing Tinker or Time Walk, it can serve to counter a counter, and it seems like it could (mana permitting) work quite well with Snapcaster Mage, i.e. Ancestral Recall, flashback with Snapcaster, Twincast the flashbacked Ancestral Recall. Also, when it's not playable/useful, it pitches to Force of Will.

Obviously, perhaps the biggest problem with this card is that it costs to play, meaning that if you're copying your own spell it will almost definitely have to be a very low cmc spell, and if you're copying a counter you will very likely have had to have spent mana playing another spell previously, making it harder to play Twincast.

So, does this card have any place in Vintage at all? Perhaps as a one or two of in a blue control deck?

Thoughts? Opinions?

[Wagner]

Mana Drain is better 90% of the time and even it doesn't see much play.

The card is mostly dead against Shop and Fish and Dredge.

[ilpeggiore]

snapcasting+twincasting a cc U spell =  1UUUU.

c'mon....


as a counter it goes from useless to counterspell level. very bad

some speculations :

you tinkered, you can't protect the robot from a steel sabotage with this.

for coping your own spell you need at least UUU or UUR or UUB.... not that easy

coping opponent's ancestral --> tie & you are subject to his own counter
flusterstorm on  oppo's ancestral --> advantage  & i'm not subject to counter

IF i would play something workin only with instant&c. i'll play flusterstom.

[bisamratte]

Mana Drain is better 90% of the time and even it doesn't see much play.

Mana Drain sees much play!

September 2011 Top 15
Vintage (11 events)
1. Force of Will (224)
2. Underground Sea (138)
3. Leyline of the Void (120)
4. Mana Drain (118)
5. Wasteland (117)
6. Polluted Delta (108)
7. Nature's Claim (103)
8. Gush (88)
9. Hurkyl's Recall (88)
10. Jace, the Mind Sculptor (86)
11. Tropical Island (82)
12. Scalding Tarn (80)
13. Misty Rainforest (79)
14. Black Lotus (78)
15. Mox Sapphire (78)

Souce: http://morphling.de/

[bisamratte]

Sry, miss-click. 

[BlackVise]

Mana Drain is better 90% of the time and even it doesn't see much play.

The card is mostly dead against Shop and Fish and Dredge.

Granted, it's not great against Shop and Dredge, but in that case just sideboard it out. I disagree about Fish, as at the very least it serves as a counter against FoW and other counters, and can take advantage of Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, Tinker, creature hate, etc.

As for Mana Drain - it's a different card with a different use. Twincast is much more versatile than Mana Drain, but yes Mana Drain is a far better counter.

I know Twincast will never break Vintage, but it seems to me that it has enough uses to warrant at least one or two slots in some decks. Still, that's just my opinion, though.

[Wagner]

Granted, it's not great against Shop and Dredge, but in that case just sideboard it out.   Twincast is much more versatile than Mana Drain.

No, no it's not more versatile, because it's dead against 2 decks and not that useful against Fish. That's the opposite of what versatile means.

[ilpeggiore]

i think he means that it can target your own ancestral in those match where is not good as counter

[Delha]

coping opponent's ancestral --> tie & you are subject to his own counter
flusterstorm on  oppo's ancestral --> advantage  & i'm not subject to counter

Copying an opponent's Ancestral is not a tie. Yours will resolve first, giving you three chances to draw countermagic. Also, your Ancestral is still available to be drawn or tutored. Both sides are vulnerable to countermagic, so that is a null argument. The best you could say is that Twincast is more difficult to protect, due to the increased CC.

Also, since people are comparing this to countermagic... There will often be situations where your bomb gets hit by a Flusterstorm, and most counters won't be able to protect you. Twincast lets you force your bomb through. Admittedly, you've probably got your own Flusterstorms and if Mindbreak Traps are on the rise, this ground is increasingly covered, which in turn marginalizes this upside.

[nineisnoone]

I would add a 1-off Misdirection before this (which btw, I think is very good right now).