Sleeves and Cubing

[Klep]

I'm putting together a cube and I've run into some practical problems when it comes to sleeves.  Do people sleeve up a bunch of basics to go with the cube or just bring extra sleeves for the drafters to use? Also, I used to use Dragon Shields for Type 4, but haven't had to value sleeve durability in some time.  Are they still really good for that or should I be using some other brand?

[AmbivalentDuck]

I'm putting together a cube and I've run into some practical problems when it comes to sleeves.  Do people sleeve up a bunch of basics to go with the cube or just bring extra sleeves for the drafters to use? Also, I used to use Dragon Shields for Type 4, but haven't had to value sleeve durability in some time.  Are they still really good for that or should I be using some other brand?

I have 40 of each basic sleeved and ready.  Double-sleeving with KMC perfect fits and pink dragon shields has worked out well for me.

Buying sleeves in that quantity, I strongly recommend buying in extreme bulk to save on costs.  I've used Potomac Distribution in the past, here's their sleeves.

[H]

I had my 720 card Cube in KMC Super Oranges with KMC Perfect Fits inside.  I also sleeves all 300 or so Zendikar full art basics double sleeved the same way too.

Granted, my Cube had a lot of non-basics, but I don't think we ever used even 1/5th of those basics, but it was nice to have them.  I have to say, the KMC Supers are pretty durable.

Also, I would recommend Potomac, I have used them for big orders, really quick and reasonable shipping.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

One thing that I would do if I ever made a cube is make sure all the basic lands of each type are the same art (and set). They don't have to be fancy or anything but it makes everything look a lot cleaner IMO.

[Prospero]

One thing that I would do if I ever made a cube is make sure all the basic lands of each type are the same art (and set). They don't have to be fancy or anything but it makes everything look a lot cleaner IMO.

You've been hanging around people with O.C.D. too long. 

Yeah, I'd do that too, and not just because it would look cleaner.

[lplaat]

I'm putting together a cube and I've run into some practical problems when it comes to sleeves.  Do people sleeve up a bunch of basics to go with the cube or just bring extra sleeves for the drafters to use? Also, I used to use Dragon Shields for Type 4, but haven't had to value sleeve durability in some time.  Are they still really good for that or should I be using some other brand?

This topic has been discussed to death: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=170283

In essence: opinions/experiences differ.

Depending on the value of your cube I'd definitely recommend double sleeving with KMC perfect fits inside whatever..... pick a choice (I use ultra-pro's and am happy with them.

I'd recommend sleeving up basic lands in a similar manner and bringing those along. The number of basics depends on the number of drafters and the amount of fixing/non-basics.

For all cube-related questions: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=349

cheers,
lplaat

[Diakonov]

Yep.

KMC's, double-sleeved using KMC perfect fits.  Potomac Distribution.

I have 25 of each basic sleeved in the same fashion, and I haven't had a draft yet where there weren't enough.  One of each cycle of Euros and APACS, and the rest are beta basics.  It looks fucking sweet.

CUBE CUBE CUBE CUBE CUBE CUBE CUBE

[Cruel Ultimatum]

One thing that I would do if I ever made a cube is make sure all the basic lands of each type are the same art (and set). They don't have to be fancy or anything but it makes everything look a lot cleaner IMO.

You've been hanging around people with O.C.D. too long. 

Yeah, I'd do that too, and not just because it would look cleaner.

I always use the same basics. Its just wrong to not do so, and has been drilled in my head to do so. I think it looks nicer as well.

[Diakonov]

One thing that I would do if I ever made a cube is make sure all the basic lands of each type are the same art (and set). They don't have to be fancy or anything but it makes everything look a lot cleaner IMO.

You've been hanging around people with O.C.D. too long.  

Yeah, I'd do that too, and not just because it would look cleaner.

I always use the same basics. Its just wrong to not do so, and has been drilled in my head to do so. I think it looks nicer as well.

How is it just wrong?  I completely disagree with this opinion.

EDIT: Also, if you ever have trouble with double-sleeving, I've just recently discovered a neat trick.  Take four cards you don't care about and shove them into the sleeve, then remove them.  The perfect-fitted card should then slide in nicely.

[AmbivalentDuck]

If all of your copies of a given card are identical (condition, set, art, foiling, etc), it's much more difficult to tell how many you run.  This starts to matter in the context of the cube when I'm deciding which of your lands to Sinkhole.

Anyways, any advantage from that is minor and having enough of a given land to have all copies in your deck be the same confers exactly the same advantage without limiting your choices.  For each basic land type, I usually have 10x of each of several arts available.  I'm a sucker for Ice Age forests while others prefer the Unhinged version.

[Diakonov]

I always use the same basic pic in Vintage for similar information reasons with Duress.

I do include around 8-10 copies of the same picture for each basic-type, so if someone was worried about their splash color being hit they could easily mask it.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

One thing that I would do if I ever made a cube is make sure all the basic lands of each type are the same art (and set). They don't have to be fancy or anything but it makes everything look a lot cleaner IMO.

You've been hanging around people with O.C.D. too long.  

Yeah, I'd do that too, and not just because it would look cleaner.

I always use the same basics. Its just wrong to not do so, and has been drilled in my head to do so. I think it looks nicer as well.

How is it just wrong?  I completely disagree with this opinion.

EDIT: Also, if you ever have trouble with double-sleeving, I've just recently discovered a neat trick.  Take four cards you don't care about and shove them into the sleeve, then remove them.  The perfect-fitted card should then slide in nicely.

Tell me one situation where having different pictured lands has an advantage.

[H]

One thing that I would do if I ever made a cube is make sure all the basic lands of each type are the same art (and set). They don't have to be fancy or anything but it makes everything look a lot cleaner IMO.

You've been hanging around people with O.C.D. too long.  

Yeah, I'd do that too, and not just because it would look cleaner.

I always use the same basics. Its just wrong to not do so, and has been drilled in my head to do so. I think it looks nicer as well.

How is it just wrong?  I completely disagree with this opinion.

EDIT: Also, if you ever have trouble with double-sleeving, I've just recently discovered a neat trick.  Take four cards you don't care about and shove them into the sleeve, then remove them.  The perfect-fitted card should then slide in nicely.

Tell me one situation where having different pictured lands has an advantage.

I have an Island with picture A, you run Islands with picture B.  You gain control of my Island.  Since they are sleeved the same, it wouldn't be immediately recognizable that you have one of mine.  At least I might recognize that your land looks different when I am scooping up cards.  Corner case, but one none the less.

[AmbivalentDuck]

That's actually untrue.  The more arts in my deck, the higher the odds that at least one of them matches yours.

[Samoht]

That's actually untrue.  The more arts in my deck, the higher the odds that at least one of them matches yours.

Not if you all take the same art from the cube box that is given. Then there is a 100% chance that they match....which is precisely what he said.

[AmbivalentDuck]

There seems to be some confusion here.  You're debating the merits of having only a single art available for the cube, which I've already discussed.  Notice the difference between "in my deck" and "in my cube."

If all of your copies of a given card are identical (condition, set, art, foiling, etc), it's much more difficult to tell how many you run.  This starts to matter in the context of the cube when I'm deciding which of your lands to Sinkhole.

Anyways, any advantage from that is minor and having enough of a given land to have all copies in your deck be the same confers exactly the same advantage without limiting your choices.  For each basic land type, I usually have 10x of each of several arts available.  I'm a sucker for Ice Age forests while others prefer the Unhinged version.

[Samoht]

There seems to be some confusion here.  You're debating the merits of having only a single art available for the cube, which I've already discussed.  Notice the difference between "in my deck" and "in my cube."

If all of your copies of a given card are identical (condition, set, art, foiling, etc), it's much more difficult to tell how many you run.  This starts to matter in the context of the cube when I'm deciding which of your lands to Sinkhole.

Anyways, any advantage from that is minor and having enough of a given land to have all copies in your deck be the same confers exactly the same advantage without limiting your choices.  For each basic land type, I usually have 10x of each of several arts available.  I'm a sucker for Ice Age forests while others prefer the Unhinged version.

You're equivocating. You draft from your cube and build a deck which is what we are all discussing here. H even alludes to the cards being sleeved exactly the same fostering the concept of coming from the cube. Cruel Ultimatum requested a scenario in which having different art was better in response to Diakonov's post. H's point was that if all the lands in the cube are exactly the same and someone plays something like Vedalken Plotter, it could be an issue at the end of the game when we are packing up our decks to move to the next opponent. You chimed in with a statement that really made no sense in the context of the discussion in an attempt to invalidate a claim that holds weight (albeit in an unlikely circumstance). H was working under the assumption that all of the land in the cube was identical, in which case they would all match (art and sleeving) and create possible confusion.

Moreover, having only 10 of each art type is too few. I have been known to put together a mono colored cube deck, and need 12-17 lands of one color depending on the non-basics I acquired. In your cube, I'd have to use art that doesn't match the other 10.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I didn't read the quotes all the way through to Cruel's original post.  I stand by what I said, but I agree that it does not address the discussion that was going on at the time.

[Klep]

I find that the advantages to be gained from having only 1 of a given land art in a deck are minimal, and that the pleasure you derive from aesthetic consistency is greater than any strategic advantage.  When it comes to a cube, I'm not going to worry about it.  I have a huge stack of Zendikar lands sitting around doing nothing.  I think I'll use them, in a mix of arts.

[Diakonov]

I find that the advantages to be gained from having only 1 of a given land art in a deck are minimal, and that the pleasure you derive from aesthetic consistency is greater than any strategic advantage.  When it comes to a cube, I'm not going to worry about it.  I have a huge stack of Zendikar lands sitting around doing nothing.  I think I'll use them, in a mix of arts.

Exactly.

[The Wolf]

Giving people access to different pictures for land is essential to cube.  You give them the option to bluff people into sinkholing the wrong land by playing lands from their hand with different artwork then then did in the first game...

[Klep]

So what do people use to store and transport their cubes?  I'm looking for something that can hold 920 double-sleeved cards.  A big Rook case would be ideal, but no one seems to have those anymore, and I can't find any other realistic options.

[Chill79]

So what do people use to store and transport their cubes?  I'm looking for something that can hold 920 double-sleeved cards.

For my cube i use: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=246626 ,couple of those would work...

-jyri-