[YMTCIV] Color choice

[quicksilvervii]

Nianfo  W
Enchantment
All land cards you own that aren't on the battlefield and all lands you control are basic.
Spells and abilities your opponents control can't cause permanents you control to become tapped.
Pure land brings peace and serenity.

Mono W stax with the ability to CIPT fetch any nonbasics?  Sign me up.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Power of the herd
Enchantment
G

Hexproof
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on it for each creature in play that shares a creature type with it.  Creatures you control with a counter have hexproof.

How do we like this one?  Could also just cost W if anyone prefers.  Thoughts?

[Stormanimagus]

Power of the herd
Enchantment
G

Hexproof
Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, put a +1/+1 counter on it for each creature in play that shares a creature type with it.  Creatures you control with a counter have hexproof.

How do we like this one?  Could also just cost W if anyone prefers.  Thoughts?

Why are you just suggesting tribal crap? I like human.dec as much as the next guy, but I want to make something more far-reaching than something playable in one deck.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Life Energy
Enchantment
W/G
Creatures cost G or W less to cast
Non-creature spells cost 1 more to cast

Totally on color - global, non-tribal effect.  Playable in any format.  Any takers?

[Prospero]

Flaming will not be tolerated.  No expletives should be used in making your point, or discussing someone else's.  If the tenor of this conversation can't be kept above brow, this thread, like its predecessor, will be locked.

[Stormanimagus]

Life Energy
Enchantment
W/G
Creatures cost G or W less to cast
Non-creature spells cost 1 more to cast

Totally on color - global, non-tribal effect.  Playable in any format.  Any takers?

Yes, but this is clearly targeted at helping a specific Vintage deck. I'd rather see a card that has a positive effect that doesn't seem so targeted and that could spark a new archetype. I don't want to see business as usual hate cards, even if they DO help decks that I like to play. I think do be that self-interested would be just doing it for ego and not for creativity.

-Storm

[HappyNewyear]

Dying Bonfire
1R
Enchantment

Sac ~: Add RR to your mana pool.
Exile ~ from your graveyard: Add R to your mana pool.

I know Red-based storm decks aren't en vogue in Vintage, but the last ability is the key: giving graveyard strategies a mana source when comboing off.

[TheWhiteDragon]

1GG
Enchantment
Infusion of Life
All nonland permanents are creatures with power and toughness equal to their casting cost.

I think this card could be amazing. It would be a 3/3 itself, so it provides a threat while also being vulnerable.  Moxen in all formats would die as would chalices.  Things like RIP or crucible could be bolted. Jace could be plowed. Damnation would be a nevineryl's disk. Critter removal would be at an even higher premium, yet threats like tarmgoyf would become lowly 2/2s, so the actual critter threats may become weaker while non creatures would be big threats while easily removable.  It would make for very interesting games!

[mikekilljoy]

Dying Bonfire
1R
Enchantment

Sac ~: Add RR to your mana pool.
Exile ~ from your graveyard: Add R to your mana pool.

I know Red-based storm decks aren't en vogue in Vintage, but the last ability is the key: giving graveyard strategies a mana source when comboing off.

Probably could do the same thing with black.

Sac to Cabal Ritual with a Threshold check.

[Wagner]

1GG
Enchantment
Infusion of Life
All nonland permanents are creatures with power and toughness equal to their casting cost.

I think this card could be amazing. It would be a 3/3 itself, so it provides a threat while also being vulnerable.  Moxen in all formats would die as would chalices.  Things like RIP or crucible could be bolted. Jace could be plowed. Damnation would be a nevineryl's disk. Critter removal would be at an even higher premium, yet threats like tarmgoyf would become lowly 2/2s, so the actual critter threats may become weaker while non creatures would be big threats while easily removable.  It would make for very interesting games!

But it's a mess to keep track of with layers unless you add a crapton of reminder text. I would make it non-land and non-creatures to ease that a bit.

Though the concept is nice, it's not for this YMTC as for all intents and purposes, this is a creature, not an enchantment.

[HappyNewyear]

Dying Bonfire
1R
Enchantment

Sac ~: Add RR to your mana pool.
Exile ~ from your graveyard: Add R to your mana pool.

I know Red-based storm decks aren't en vogue in Vintage, but the last ability is the key: giving graveyard strategies a mana source when comboing off.

Probably could do the same thing with black.

Sac to Cabal Ritual with a Threshold check.

A similar green enchantment would, according to the current color pie, be able to add mana of any color, the possibilities of which scare me a little:

Tap Bazaar
Dregde 2 Grave-Trolls
Discard 2 Grave-Trolls
remove [green dying bonfire] from graveyard, adding U
Unearth Fatestitcher
Tap Fatestitcher, untapping Bazaar
Tap Bazaar
Dredge 2 Grave-Trolls...

[TheWhiteDragon]

It looks like red is winning out (my second choice to black anyway) so let's make something awesome.

Volatile Arena
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a source deals damage to you or a permanent you control, Volatile Arena deals 2 damage to that source's controller.

Maybe needs to be 1RR.

Another version:

Volatile Arena
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a spell deals damage to you or a permanent you control, Volatile Arena deals 2 damage to that spells controller.  Whenever a creature deals damage to you or a permanent you control, Volatile Arena deals 2 damage to that creature.

Here's a decent take on Aether Flash (which was always too expensive anyway):

Aether Stun
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a creature ETB, Aether Stun deals 1 damage to that creature.

Takes care of bobs, nobles, bloodghasts, snapcasters, revokers, welders, delver, strix, mayors, thalias, etc.  Huge impact on every format and giving red a much needed boost in the critter war. Still allows for 2/2s and also limits goblins and lavamancer, so it isn't one sided and fair for the cost.

Another idea:

Play Fair (for lack of a better name)
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a permanent EtB from a library or graveyard, its controller loses life equal to its converted mana cost.  Whenever a spell is played from a library or graveyard, its controller loses life equal to its converted mana cost.

Here's a fun one that could be purposeful in a non-hate way.

Chaotic Gambit
Enchantment
R
Cumulative upkeep: add a chaos counter to Chaotic Gambit. At the end of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you win the flip, Chaotic Gambit deals damage equal to the number of chaos counters on it to atarget player or creature.  If you lose the flip, Chaotic Gambit deals that much damage to you instead.

[xouman]

I suppose you are talking about aether flash, I've played it not so long ago. Making the card  cheaper at the cost of losing 1 of the 2 damage seems a bad idea.

The idea of dealing damage for damage received feels more White or at least Red-White. Or even blue (Backfire anyone?)


Consuming aura - R
Enchantment
Enchanted creature has haste.
R, sacrifice enchanted creature: Consuming aura deals damage to target creature or player equal to sacrified creature's power. Return Consuming aura to your hand.


Berserker aura - 1R
Enchantment
Enchanted creature gains double strike.
Whennever target creature deals damage, berserker aura deals the same amount of damage to creature's controller.


Oh! a new idea!

Artificier's moon - 2R
Enchantment
All artifacts are Mountains.


Goodbye MUD! Bye to BSC and time vault. 3 of the 4 biggest problems of Vintage dealt in one card. Not better than blood moon (even worse in other formats). I like this card A LOT.

Maybe too narrow for YMTC, but I'm not sure.

[orgcandman]

I usually like to stay out of created card discussions that aren't on the CCF because typically the cards suggested aren't that great.

However, occasionally someone posits a gem that is both interesting and immediately speaks volumes on the types of players that would be interested in running such a card.

Artificier's moon - 2R
Enchantment
All artifacts are Mountains.

This card looks incredibly fun to play.
In all formats.
I like this card.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I'm not sure I like artficer's moon only because it reads "2R: screw target vintage metagame".  It really has very little, if any, application outside of vintage and within vintage it makes an entire vintage pillar into a deck of nonbasics and mountains only. There would be absolutely nothing shops could do...at all.  It would nuke all their previous plays and prevent all future plays for 3 mana.  It would splash damage blue by hitting bsc/vault, but blue has counters and bounce, so it could still win.  This card would blasically erase an entire pillar from vintage in one card.  Yes, you have to cast it and possibly through spheres.  But do we want SSG, tomb, moon = shops HAVE to scoop?  How about lotus, scoop?  Unlike energy flux and blood moon, it's not a card that is extremely hard to fight through, it is an enchantment (something red can't remove) that instantly makes their deck a pile of 60 lands.  That's not a gem at all.

A similar effect with a broader application could read:

2R
Enchantment
Blue spells cannot be cast.

Obviously such a spell would be equally format warping.  Talk about cards that are pure hate, artificer's moon and this thing are about as hate as it gets.  I'd never advocate artificer's moon (and making a non land into a land is way out of flavor anyway) because I don't think any card should be one color's cheap answer to removing an entire archetype from a metagame.

[Stormanimagus]

I'm not sure I like artficer's moon only because it reads "2R: screw target vintage metagame".  It really has very little, if any, application outside of vintage and within vintage it makes an entire vintage pillar into a deck of nonbasics and mountains only. There would be absolutely nothing shops could do...at all.  It would nuke all their previous plays and prevent all future plays for 3 mana.  It would splash damage blue by hitting bsc/vault, but blue has counters and bounce, so it could still win.  This card would blasically erase an entire pillar from vintage in one card.  Yes, you have to cast it and possibly through spheres.  But do we want SSG, tomb, moon = shops HAVE to scoop?  How about lotus, scoop?  Unlike energy flux and blood moon, it's not a card that is extremely hard to fight through, it is an enchantment (something red can't remove) that instantly makes their deck a pile of 60 lands.  That's not a gem at all.

A similar effect with a broader application could read:

2R
Enchantment
Blue spells cannot be cast.

Obviously such a spell would be equally format warping.  Talk about cards that are pure hate, artificer's moon and this thing are about as hate as it gets.  I'd never advocate artificer's moon (and making a non land into a land is way out of flavor anyway) because I don't think any card should be one color's cheap answer to removing an entire archetype from a metagame.

It would force MUD out of the metagame perhaps, but not Shops. They would just need to run White or Green for Enchantment removal and not be pure MUD any more.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I suppose shops would have to run 4 city, 4 nature's claim just like dredge had to do to get around the printing of RIP and LotV, but. I still see it as a card that is gunning for 1 specific deck in one format. It has MINOR splash damage elsewhere (bsc, vault, batterskull, jitte) but is 95% just to hose shop decks. Even if nature's claim could remove it, is it okay to make ALL shopdecks into 56 lands + 4 nature's claims? Even lotus and emerald would only make red mana, so it's basically removing an entire deck from play.  Dredge is okay to hose because it tries to win on the back of 1 card, cheats by using the grave instead of casting spells, and can kill on 1 turn in the window it removes the enchantment.  This card however has little chance of removal (unless you run 8 rainbow lands and 6-8 removal spells like dredge), shops CAN'T kill in one turn during the window, and even dredge can play fair and cast thugs, bloodghasts, and stinkweeds, but this card would make shops tap 4 lands to cast...a mountain?  Taking away a decks avenue to cheat (i.e. cage vs oath) is fine, buttaking away a deck's option to even play fair is unacceptable.  It would have a drastic effect on all shops, not just MUD, though it would COMPLETELY remove MUD and monored shops from the equation all together.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

If everyone had a vintage mind set than yes

Something even a large portion of vintage players seem to not have.

[Prospero]

One final reminder - this thread is about the color of a card to be created, not about screwing Shops, or any other pillar in the Vintage metagame.  If you would like to discuss perceived issues with the Vintage metagame, create a thread in the Vintage Issues forum.  If you would like to create random hate cards that will never see print, please feel free to use the Card Creation forum.  

If this, too, becomes another thread where nothing but Shop hate cards are discussed, it will be locked.  All future threads on this specific topic (You Make the Card IV) will be locked if this thread ends up locked, as the community will have proven itself incapable, twice, of having this discussion without having it devolve into a pile of worthless drivel.  

Let's get back on point.

[TheWhiteDragon]

I think it's safe to say we shouldn't make any dedicated hate card and should focus on cards that advance a color's traditional game plans.  The Chaotic Gamble card, while maybe not being the best, is a fun attempt to push "burn" forward without nerfing another deck. I don't think it's bad to hurt a specific card type (I.e. dealing damage to critters, backlashing spells cheated in, etc.) But pure hate, especially toward any one deck, should be off limits.

[brianpk80]

I voted for white.  It has a strong support structure to run enchantments and a good recent pedigree.  If an enchantment were printed in any other color with a color-pie based effect, it would likely be inferior to cards that already exist. 

[TheWhiteDragon]

The problem I see with white is that I don't see a real color identity to the enchantments. They protect against colored sources, they imprison creatures (from attacking at least), making enchantments into critters, removing graveyards, hindering activated abilities...it just seems it can do anything.  Also, white has a large amount of walking enchantments now as the critters have enchantmentlike effects.

Black and red are much more narrow in what their enchantments do (albeit they do powerful things) and have few critters that don't just beat face. I think they would offer more color flavorful effects that could be fun as well as bolstering a devoid area for those colors (white is already enchantment stocked).

I'd also HATE to see this become a creature aura card in any color.

[Wagner]

It looks like red is winning out (my second choice to black anyway) so let's make something awesome.

Volatile Arena
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a source deals damage to you or a permanent you control, Volatile Arena deals 2 damage to that source's controller.

Maybe needs to be 1RR.

Another version:

Volatile Arena
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a spell deals damage to you or a permanent you control, Volatile Arena deals 2 damage to that spells controller.  Whenever a creature deals damage to you or a permanent you control, Volatile Arena deals 2 damage to that creature.

Here's a decent take on Aether Flash (which was always too expensive anyway):

Aether Stun
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a creature ETB, Aether Stun deals 1 damage to that creature.

Takes care of bobs, nobles, bloodghasts, snapcasters, revokers, welders, delver, strix, mayors, thalias, etc.  Huge impact on every format and giving red a much needed boost in the critter war. Still allows for 2/2s and also limits goblins and lavamancer, so it isn't one sided and fair for the cost.

Another idea:

Play Fair (for lack of a better name)
Enchantment
RR
Whenever a permanent EtB from a library or graveyard, its controller loses life equal to its converted mana cost.  Whenever a spell is played from a library or graveyard, its controller loses life equal to its converted mana cost.

Here's a fun one that could be purposeful in a non-hate way.

The 2 Arenas are just too good, they would need to at least work affect both players or have a much much bigger mana cost.

Aether Stun would be awesome though, on color, simple, elegant.

Play Fair needs to also hurt players from playing stuff from Exile, especially Griffins

[TheWhiteDragon]

Here's a fun white card that seems on flavor, playable, and would spur new decks.

Tactician's Treaty
2W
Enchantment
Players cannot be dealt damage.

This allows for infect, tendrils, and card mill to still win, but would stifle the most common path to victory while requiring the user to use a unique strategy to win as well.

[Stormanimagus]

Here's a fun white card that seems on flavor, playable, and would spur new decks.

Tactician's Treaty
2W
Enchantment
Players cannot be dealt damage.

This allows for infect, tendrils, and card mill to still win, but would stifle the most common path to victory while requiring the user to use a unique strategy to win as well.

How about something that hinders permanent development, but universally.


Triumvirate Delegation    

Enchantment

No more than 3 permanents of each permanent type may be in play. Once 3 permanents of a given type are on the battlefield players may not play additional permanents of that type.


Not entirely sure what this would do, but is there a way to tweak it to make it Vintage playable? It harkens back to an enchantment that costed W called "Limited Resources." Not sure if this would be too boring a card with too boring an effect though.


Also for a non-denial white enchantment what about this:


Enchanted Melody       

Enchantment         

Whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield under your control you may draw a card for each enchantment in play.

Enchantment spells you cast cost  less to cast.



-Storm

[Wagner]

Here's a fun white card that seems on flavor, playable, and would spur new decks.

Tactician's Treaty
2W
Enchantment
Players cannot be dealt damage.

This allows for infect, tendrils, and card mill to still win, but would stifle the most common path to victory while requiring the user to use a unique strategy to win as well.

How about something that hinders permanent development, but universally.


Triumvirate Delegation    

Enchantment

No more than 3 permanents of each permanent type may be in play. Once 3 permanents of a given type are on the battlefield players may not play additional permanents of that type.


Not entirely sure what this would do, but is there a way to tweak it to make it Vintage playable? It harkens back to an enchantment that costed W called "Limited Resources." Not sure if this would be too boring a card with too boring an effect though.

-Storm

This would put a ridiculous amount of power on whoever goes first! Turn 3, cast this, opponent is stuck at 2 lands until he draws his answer. Might be ok if it was non-land permanents, would work a bit like Portcullis.

[Nefarias]

The color vote has officially ended, and as such the purpose of this thread has run it's course. On Monday we'll find out what the color is, or more likely, have a run-off vote.

Perhaps when that info comes out it would make sense to start a new thread, since people clearly enjoy designing card ideas, but that one can be more focused once we know the color. In the meantime, as Prospero said, the Card Creation Forum exists.

I request that this thread gets locked, not due to lack of quality discussion, but rather on account of the color vote being over. The time-sensitive focus is no longer relevant.

[HappyNewyear]

A "source" on MTG Salvation is saying Black won:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=501527

Take it for what you will, but I wouldn't doubt MTGS and their spoilers.

[Godder]

This thread has run its course. When the result/next vote is announced, feel free to open a new thread.