Spoiler - Voice of Resurgence

[Guli]

How would you evaluate this card?

My gut tells me this card as more to offer than it shows at first glance. I think a lot of value can be squeezed out of this.

[bactgudz]

How would you evaluate this card?

My gut tells me this card as more to offer than it shows at first glance. I think a lot of value can be squeezed out of this.

The "hate" is way worse than grand abolisher which hasn't done a whole lot in vintage, so the additional value is in leaving a body behind if he gets killed (by other-than-swords)...seems weak to me.

[ramrodjon]

It's already over $20 on ebay, so somebody plans on playing this guy.  At first glance it seems okay, but maybe not at that price.

[DubDub]

I didn't initially see the 'during your turn', which makes a huge difference in power level.  I don't think this is Vintage playable, but I could be proven wrong.

[vaughnbros]

The "hate" is way worse than grand abolisher which hasn't done a whole lot in vintage, so the additional value is in leaving a body behind if he gets killed (by other-than-swords)...seems weak to me.

Its mana cost is a major difference from grand abolisher.  WW is nearly impossible to cast in most fish decks, but GW is extremely easy.  I wouldn't exactly say his hate is worse.  Sometimes allowing a player to do something at a cost is better than not letting them do it all.  I'm still not sure if hes actually vintage playable, but I do think its better than abolisher at least for fish.

It's already over $20 on ebay, so somebody plans on playing this guy.  At first glance it seems okay, but maybe not at that price.

This is because of standard where his dieing clause is more important than the other clause.

[Guli]

Hate is a concept in magic that used to refer to 'directly disrupt their bombs'. I believe that we expanded on our 'hate' concept. Fighting the removal, 2v1 plans and draws of opposing decks with cards that generate value can also be categorized as 'hate'. This thing can generate tokens that have value in theirselves. This card is value, and the value it generates also can be value. I like both of the trigger effects, they will both happen one way or the other.

Imagine this and some spell that kills this and gives you tokens. It can put up a super effective blockade against aggro. Just giving examples now don't get all fuzzy, say you sacrifice this to birthing pod and go get a Blade Splicer. Or a deck with Blitterblossom generating a lot of tokens. Or a deck with a high creature count.

A lot of the blue control decks rely on Jace, and try to bolt away (or other removal) to kill creature threats and ride it out on the back of Jace. If you can maintain a good creature presence on the board, their most important card will not be effective.

[xouman]

Ehem... all counterspells say "put a creature under your opponent's control" (if played in your turn). Any control deck must kill it asap and in its own turn, if possible. Bolting it in your turn makes 2 creatures, at least 2/2.  Against mud is a vanilla with persist, at least. While it does depend on opponent's deck, could be a real trouble if not responded quickly.

[gkraigher]

This is a very good modern card, an ok legacy card, and an awful vintage card. 

[evouga]

That this card gives your opponent a choice to still counter your most important spells makes it much worse than it appears. I can't imagine playing this over Grand Abolisher or Xantid Swarm.

[bax]

why i have the strange feeling that Guli is going to build around this one and the Wayfaring Temple a Cavern Elemental deck ? 

+

[StanleyAugust]

why i have the strange feeling that Guli is going to build around this one and the Wayfaring Temple a Cavern Elemental deck ? 

+

An Elemental deck would be hilarious. Between Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, Ingot Chewer and Aethersnipe you've got some card advantage, while Flamekin Harbinger finds what you needs. Cavern and and Primal Beyond fixes the mana. If you want a more comboish build, Smokebraider and Incandescent Soulstoke power out Nova Chasers which returns Flamekin Harbinger to the battlefield to search for another Nova Chaser! 

[Guli]

Animar also attracts me as an elemental.

I don't see Resurgence as an alternative to Abolisher. Surely, effective anti broken cards will still have to be played like Thalia and/or Dryad Militant.

Let me remind you that the opponent also has choices with Mayor, but the strategies and mechanics in the deck can be designed in such a way that those choices will lose their flexibility and strength. You might even say I build a deck around Mayor, but when you look at the cards I used, they are all solid cards anyway providing denial and advantages. Mana denial is good with transform cards and Mayor happens to be powerfull and cheap.

This card is cheap and can come down on turn 1. Will mana denial be strong with this too? Or does this require something else to become powerfull and shine like it should? I think tutoring can be interesting, some grave play perhaps, token generating, etc.

We will see

[MaximumCDawg]

I am also in the "This card looks unplayable but something is nagging at me that it's better than it looks" camp.  This is one of those rare unique cards with an effect we haven't seen before.

The casting cost is obviously playable in Vintage.  WG is fine.  It has the potential to make a bunch of dudes, which a WG deck is probably happy to do.  It chumps a lodestone twice. It punishes countermagic.  I don't think he's worth the $10+ price tag he's being assigned on eBay, but I am very wary that this card is more powerful than it looks.

[Guli]

So is this card vintage playable? Or just something for Legacy? I haven't gotten around to build something with it.

[gkraigher]

Why is this card worth $40?   

I understand that it is great in modern and standard, but is it $40 good?  I guess the set is absolute trash outside of it. 

[Stormanimagus]

So is this card vintage playable? Or just something for Legacy? I haven't gotten around to build something with it.

Perhaps in that old GW shell with Mikaeus? I might start there.

-Storm

[boggyb]

Why is this card worth $40?   

I understand that it is great in modern and standard, but is it $40 good?  I guess the set is absolute trash outside of it. 

It's very good in standard, especially against very aggressive decks.

[gkraigher]

It does seem great in standard.  It's good vs. the Control decks and the aggressive creature decks.  Is it good in vintage, legacy and modern?  I value the effect of it dying as as getting a 3 CC card in addition to a 2/2 bear.  That is good value for a green and a white, but is it good enough?

[boggyb]

In short, the answer is No, it's not nearly good enough for Vintage. The card is two things in one: 1. A 2/2 for GW, and 2. A classic example of a durdly do-nothing enchantment, i.e. one with a potentially powerful effect but which requires other cards to do anything at all. The first is fine, but the second just isn't viable here, unless exceptionally powerful -- especially when it depends on your opponent's cards and decisions.

I'd almost rather have Triumph of Ferocity or even Domri Rade/Ajani, Caller of the Pride in a Vintage deck than Voice. At least those have the potential to draw you a card or net you a card-like effect every turn, instead of a single 1/1-3/3 dude when your opponent just Bolts him on their turn. Or Swordses him -- even worse.

[Shax]

If you swing with Voice of Resurgence to attack during your turn and your opponent Lightning Bolts this creature you happen to get 2 2/2 GW Tokens. 1 Token since your opponent casted a spell on your turn and another token for when Voice of Resurgence dies.

2 2/2 Tokens off a Lightning Bolt is a great trade. Basically you 2 for 1'd your opponent with this thing. Voice of Resurgance is not Legendary so x4 can be ran without hesitation.

[gkraigher]

If you swing with Voice of Resurgence to attack during your turn and your opponent Lightning Bolts this creature you happen to get 2 2/2 GW Tokens. 1 Token since your opponent casted a spell on your turn and another token for when Voice of Resurgence dies.

2 2/2 Tokens off a Lightning Bolt is a great trade. Basically you 2 for 1'd your opponent with this thing. Voice of Resurgance is not Legendary so x4 can be ran without hesitation.

The whole point of the card is that your opponent would never target this card on your turn with a lightning bolt.  If anything they would do that on their turn, but that seems like an awful play as well.  It's basically a grizzly bear that has shroud, especially on your turn.

It's good in environments where you want to block and/or force your opponent to cast spells on his (or her) turn.

I get that this thing is good in standard, but is it good in Modern or Legacy?  I don't think it's Vintage worthy. 

[boggyb]

If you swing with Voice of Resurgence to attack during your turn and your opponent Lightning Bolts this creature you happen to get 2 2/2 GW Tokens. 1 Token since your opponent casted a spell on your turn and another token for when Voice of Resurgence dies.

2 2/2 Tokens off a Lightning Bolt is a great trade. Basically you 2 for 1'd your opponent with this thing. Voice of Resurgance is not Legendary so x4 can be ran without hesitation.

Actually that'd be a 3-for-1 -- but in any case I really doubt anyone will bolt him on your turn, unless they're about to die, in which case you're probably far ahead anyway. It's much more likely they'll kill him on their own turn, as players have been doing with Searing Spear et al in Standard for the past few weeks. In other words, while he's on the table, the best thing he does is slow your opponent's removal to near-sorcery speed, which isn't that great. And he doesn't make a token from a Jace-bounce or a sorcery-speed Swords. And the tokens are not game-breaking in any case. Altogether, it's pretty good, but doesn't compare very favorably with other bears that interact with your opponent immediately upon entering play.

His best use appears to be actually as a kind of improved Strangleroot Geist -- he blocks a dude and comes back, and provides some secondary utility alongside. But none of his effects seem very relevant in Vintage, especially compared with the other creatures he has to compete against.

[gkraigher]

I guess Sam Pardee answered my question with a win this week at Grand Prix Providence.  This card will be played in Modern.  Next up, will it be played in Legacy?

[serracollector]

Even tho different color schemes this card could work well with the new young pyromancer. You cast a relevant spell, get a token, if they counter it you get 2 tokens and one is buffed by the other.