[TO Report] 7.20.13 - $2,000 Vintage Event - Part of TDG's 2013 Eternal Series

[Samoht]

I can't really penalize you for only playing 10 games with the deck, having only played a handful more than that myself. I'm glad you actually gave the deck a try. After our discussion at the Depot, I didn't think you'd give it a second look.

In the four tournaments I played the deck in, I went 4-4 in games against Burning Long with two match wins. Two of the game losses were misplays on my part that directly resulted in my opponent winning.

Yes, the mana denial package is very light. That's why I've been running three Null Rod in the sideboard during the last two tournaments.

I will gladly play Chalice at zero on the play versus the blue decks you listed regardless of whether or not they have Mox(en) in their opener. Forcing them to play fair, limiting them to one mana per turn (with the exception of Sol Ring), and shutting off their future Moxen draws are definitely pay offs. While the deck is not running as many lock pieces as traditional Shop decks, I still believe it does enough to effectively slow down most blue decks.

If you're taking all the turns or infecting me, it doesn't matter what Shop deck I'm playing. I don't see the life gain from Batterskull as a win condition versus non-creature decks. I utilize the card as a way to offset the life loss the deck does to itself.

10 games per match...as in 10 against Martello, 10 against Espresso, 10 against Terra Nova, 10 against Long, 10 against UBW sui jace, 10 against Strixis, 10 against baleful richards, 10 against bomberman, 10 against fish, 10 against mayor. i skipped dredge. Point is I gave the deck a run through.

It slows blue decks, sure. It's just that it doesn't win before they get the chance to play their big spell, and most times that spell wins the game for them. As far as the TVK/Infect, my point wasn't that those win games, but that you let them get to that point much more readily because you're denial package is significantly less.

[UnderachievementNexus]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

[Samoht]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

[vaughnbros]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

The sideboard seems critical to win those match ups considering the md has 4 dismember

[Samoht]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

The sideboard seems critical to win those match ups considering the md has 4 dismember

Being down a game is never somewhere you want to be on Shops, especially against the aforementioned decks. Sure, it has SB plans...but so do they. It's not like you get to SB against their MD.

[vaughnbros]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

The sideboard seems critical to win those match ups considering the md has 4 dismember

Being down a game is never somewhere you want to be on Shops, especially against the aforementioned decks. Sure, it has SB plans...but so do they. It's not like you get to SB against their MD.

I don't disagree with you.  This is a metagame deck designed to beat creatures though.  Just like terranova is designed to beat landstill/shops.  Most other shops builds are built to beat a different meta, because shops is in fact a control deck.  Its THE deck that says no.  No to even putting a spell on the stack.  Like any great control strategy it needs to adjust to the metagame.  The only version of shops powerful enough to overcome its metagame restrictions has been Martello, due to its versatile tutor package.

[Samoht]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

The sideboard seems critical to win those match ups considering the md has 4 dismember

Being down a game is never somewhere you want to be on Shops, especially against the aforementioned decks. Sure, it has SB plans...but so do they. It's not like you get to SB against their MD.

I don't disagree with you.  This is a metagame deck designed to beat creatures though.  Just like terranova is designed to beat landstill/shops.  Most other shops builds are built to beat a different meta, because shops is in fact a control deck.  Its THE deck that says no.  No to even putting a spell on the stack.  Like any great control strategy it needs to adjust to the metagame.  The only version of shops powerful enough to overcome its metagame restrictions has been Martello, due to its versatile tutor package.

Perhaps. My feel is that this tries to toe the line between traditional prison shops and aggro shops, and as such fails to excel at either. I did some reworks that include getting Smokestack/Crucible into the deck that I feel makes it significantly more potent.

[vaughnbros]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

The sideboard seems critical to win those match ups considering the md has 4 dismember

Being down a game is never somewhere you want to be on Shops, especially against the aforementioned decks. Sure, it has SB plans...but so do they. It's not like you get to SB against their MD.

I don't disagree with you.  This is a metagame deck designed to beat creatures though.  Just like terranova is designed to beat landstill/shops.  Most other shops builds are built to beat a different meta, because shops is in fact a control deck.  Its THE deck that says no.  No to even putting a spell on the stack.  Like any great control strategy it needs to adjust to the metagame.  The only version of shops powerful enough to overcome its metagame restrictions has been Martello, due to its versatile tutor package.

Perhaps. My feel is that this tries to toe the line between traditional prison shops and aggro shops, and as such fails to excel at either. I did some reworks that include getting Smokestack/Crucible into the deck that I feel makes it significantly more potent.

I have also reworked it adding thorns back in and sword of FaI so that it can beat Baleful Richards.

[Samoht]

How many matches did you sb? Because Null Rod grossly affects who the blue decks are forced to play

I played a few SB games beyond the 10 in each, but no more than 5 in any one match.

The sideboard seems critical to win those match ups considering the md has 4 dismember

Being down a game is never somewhere you want to be on Shops, especially against the aforementioned decks. Sure, it has SB plans...but so do they. It's not like you get to SB against their MD.

I don't disagree with you.  This is a metagame deck designed to beat creatures though.  Just like terranova is designed to beat landstill/shops.  Most other shops builds are built to beat a different meta, because shops is in fact a control deck.  Its THE deck that says no.  No to even putting a spell on the stack.  Like any great control strategy it needs to adjust to the metagame.  The only version of shops powerful enough to overcome its metagame restrictions has been Martello, due to its versatile tutor package.

Perhaps. My feel is that this tries to toe the line between traditional prison shops and aggro shops, and as such fails to excel at either. I did some reworks that include getting Smokestack/Crucible into the deck that I feel makes it significantly more potent.

I have also reworked it adding thorns back in and sword of FaI so that it can beat Baleful Richards.

I'm not sure how effective that plan is. It still gets destroyed by Welder if you're SoFaI isn't connecting the turn after he lands, and Bob still blocks. Strixis control has a much better game than Baleful Richards here as well, seeing as it has Shaman, Bolt, and more dedicated answers than relying on Strix + Welder/Clamp.

[voltron00x]

Might make sense to start a new thread for this discussion.  It's interesting to read but not really about the subject tournament (which was awesome).

[UnderachievementNexus]

I'm not sure how effective that plan is. It still gets destroyed by Welder if you're SoFaI isn't connecting the turn after he lands, and Bob still blocks. Strixis control has a much better game than Baleful Richards here as well, seeing as it has Shaman, Bolt, and more dedicated answers than relying on Strix + Welder/Clamp.
[/quote]

I like how u claim to have a better game against shops than dedicated strix. After 14 events I've lost a total of 4 matches to shops. All 4 have involved Crucible and Waste lock. 1 involved a resolved Trinisphere on turn 1. Also clamp doesn't stay in against shops (unless genesis chamber). I used to play bolt but it honestly isn't needed against shops, in fact it's grossly unimpressive.

[Samoht]

I'm not sure how effective that plan is. It still gets destroyed by Welder if you're SoFaI isn't connecting the turn after he lands, and Bob still blocks. Strixis control has a much better game than Baleful Richards here as well, seeing as it has Shaman, Bolt, and more dedicated answers than relying on Strix + Welder/Clamp.

I like how u claim to have a better game against shops than dedicated strix. After 14 events I've lost a total of 4 matches to shops. All 4 have involved Crucible and Waste lock. 1 involved a resolved Trinisphere on turn 1. Also clamp doesn't stay in against shops (unless genesis chamber). I used to play bolt but it honestly isn't needed against shops, in fact it's grossly unimpressive.
[/quote]

I've lost 0 matches to Shops in the 5 events I've played this in, and just about as many in testing sessions. You should have won the match against me in top 4, you misplayed your Welder in G1.

[UnderachievementNexus]

I'm pretty sure both of your wins involved crucible and wastelands or strip mines

[Samoht]

I'm pretty sure both of your wins involved crucible and wastelands or strip mines

You could have Welded out the Crucible in G1

[UnderachievementNexus]

Which I did after you got. Second wasteland from it and had. Golems plus tangle wire. I did weld your crucible and that was the play that cost me that game.