Mental Misstep

[xouman]

Few times people open a thread about a well established staple, but it's not uncommon. I find Mental Misstep a quite special card, because it's playable in "any" deck due to its phyrexian mana cost. I understand that not all decks want to play it, as lots of decks don't play wasteland or gitaxian probe (other vintage mana-free staples), but I'm interested to find when is misstep useful.

1-It's better to prevent opponent's plays or to protect yours? I mean, of course misstep is here to counter some spell, but is better protecting your spells/creatures from:
misstep, spell pierce, dispel (not played since fluster), naturalice, stp/pte, lightning bolt...
or is it really interesting winning tempo from countering:
ancestral recall, vampiric, mystical, dts, delver, preordain, ponder, brainstorm, gitaxian probe, dark ritual, sol ring...
I mean, it's useful for both sides, but which side is the most important for you after playing it?

2-How many times is misstep dead in your hand and you wish it was any other card? I understand that against mud is nearly always dead, but even against other relevant pairings opponent would play CC2 costs and misstep would look at them grimly.

3-And the important question, in which decks would you play misstep, and how many copies? I'm specially interested about those decks that don't play blue at all! Is misstep interesting to protect revokers/thalias/confidants from removal, or cards like dismember and decay make it too much circumstancial? Does the amount of CC1 cards from opponents justify it's inclusion in a tempo deck?

Thank you for your opinions

[JarofFortune]

Few times people open a thread about a well established staple, but it's not uncommon. I find Mental Misstep a quite special card, because it's playable in "any" deck due to its phyrexian mana cost. I understand that not all decks want to play it, as lots of decks don't play wasteland or gitaxian probe (other vintage mana-free staples), but I'm interested to find when is misstep useful.

1-It's better to prevent opponent's plays or to protect yours? I mean, of course misstep is here to counter some spell, but is better protecting your spells/creatures from:
misstep, spell pierce, dispel (not played since fluster), naturalice, stp/pte, lightning bolt...
or is it really interesting winning tempo from countering:
ancestral recall, vampiric, mystical, dts, delver, preordain, ponder, brainstorm, gitaxian probe, dark ritual, sol ring...
I mean, it's useful for both sides, but which side is the most important for you after playing it?

2-How many times is misstep dead in your hand and you wish it was any other card? I understand that against mud is nearly always dead, but even against other relevant pairings opponent would play CC2 costs and misstep would look at them grimly.

3-And the important question, in which decks would you play misstep, and how many copies? I'm specially interested about those decks that don't play blue at all! Is misstep interesting to protect revokers/thalias/confidants from removal, or cards like dismember and decay make it too much circumstancial? Does the amount of CC1 cards from opponents justify it's inclusion in a tempo deck?

Thank you for your opinions

  I believe that its inclusion in a tempo deck is a must. Currently, I would run 4 in any meta not infested by shops.

 1. If you are playing a tempo deck, which I believe you are suggesting, whether to use it on attack or defense is not a simple yes or no answer. I have been pondering this question a lot recently, and not just about Mental Misstep. I am often in the position where I have an opportunity to Force of Will a removal spell on one of my threats. I've concluded that it varies from matchup to matchup. It is important to remember that if you misstep one of their plays, and they have a misstep of their own, It usually clears the way for you to play a one drop uncontested. This is usually relevant on the first turn of the game. There is a list of cards that I will always misstep in the early turns of the game in most cases. They include: Ancestral recall, Brainstorm (When it is played at the right time), dark ritual, ponder, preordain, and sol ring. This can create an important tempo loss for the opponent that is critical when you are on the draw, which is why I would play 4.

   On the question of various use of counter spells in different matchups, I will give some examples. If you are playing against Landstill, their strategy is almost entirely reactive, so I will do whatever I can to protect my threat, I may even 2-for-1 myself with FoW depending on the value of the threat to me in the current and future gamestate. This strategy actually works (at least in the tempo deck I am testing, which has Dark Confidants that can keep or get ahead on card parity). Against other tempo decks, who are also reliant on creatures to win, I believe that the use of missteps depends on the board state and who is ahead on tempo. I will always misstep a delver or death rite against them, but later in the game the use of counterspells is very situational.

   The matchups where I have a bit more trouble in deciding are combo control decks, with Grixis being the biggest offender. I will always misstep the cards I mentioned earlier against them in the first few turns, but your tempo plan against them is not always as simple as that. This is because you won't always have a misstep in hand, especially when you counter their early plays. Grixis will typically have only 2 lightning bolts or so, which I will nearly always misstep, but If I have a Force of will and blue card in hand, it gets a bit tougher. This is because Grixis is a deck that is filled with bombs, and tempo can have a hard time against Jace and tinker.  I am still pondering the question of whether or not to Force in such a situation, although the answer will surely vary depending on the situation. This example, however, shows you the necessity of misstep. None of Grixis's win conditions cost 1 mana, bar voltaic Key, so If you have a leftover misstep from the early turns it can be an insane tempo swing when you misstep their bolt. This is because they only have 2 or so bolts and you can save your Forces and Spell Pierces for their threats. This is the reason to run 4 missteps.

2- I remember one Non-Mud game where misstep was a dead card in my hand, an anomaly against landstill. It has targets in every matchup aside from Mud.  And at the very least it will pitch to force or misdirection.         

3- I would run 4 in a tempo deck, a gush storm deck, or a combo control deck. However, I am not an expert in non blue decks, so I can't speak for all of those.

[Grand Inquisitor]

An empirical take...  If you look at the most recent 50 top8 lists on Morphling that play mental misstep, the distribution looks like this:

# of Missteps played
1 - 0%
2 - 26%
3 - 62%
4 - 12%

Regarding the 4-of's, they look like this,
- Dark Depths (using them to protect combo win from stuff like StP, etc)
- Dredge (using it to stop hate like Grafdigger and arrest the early game before it empties its hand)
- BUG (tempo card and synergy with Snapcaster)
- Bomberman (more traditional control role)
- RUG Delver (tempo card and synergy with Snapcaster)
- Oath (using it to stop hate like Grafdigger and push through early Oath against Spell Pierce and Spell Snare)

The bomberman is a bit of an anomaly, but the rest are pretty clear examples of trying to either control early plays reactively or to push through/protect key threats.  What you don't see are midrange blue decks: Grixis, UWcontrol or Landstill.  You also don't see it in storm based combo/ Doomsday that tend to mix it up with duress effects or flusterstorms.  It'll be interesting to see if Spirit of the Labyrinth decks decide to run this and in what numbers.  My guess is no, since Spirit itself addresses Ancestral, Brainstorm and other cantrips.

Obviously metagame considerations are important (many of the 4-of lists are in blue-centric metagames), but this hints at what types of decks need the early interaction and which ones employ more powerful or more general cards in the midgames they plan to win in.

[Smmenen]

Misstep has the unusual feature of being better the more Missteps are in the metagame because it can target itself.  The more Missteps in the metagame, the more targets you have for Misstep.   Misstep also has greater marginal value for that reason, because a Misstep can protect another Misstep from an opposing Misstep.

As to your first question, it depends on the strength of your threat or the opposing threat.  Whether Force of Will is better at stopping an opposing threat or resolving your own depends on the relative value of either one.

One of the key values of misstep, though, vis-a-vis other countermagic, is that it can protect your Dredge answers, like Leyline, Cage or Jailer. 

[Onslaught]

Misstep has the unusual feature of being better the more Missteps are in the metagame because it can target itself.  The more Missteps in the metagame, the more targets you have for Misstep.   Misstep also has greater marginal value for that reason, because a Misstep can protect another Misstep from an opposing Misstep.

Oddly enough, this is why I hated Misstep when it was first printed!

Since my Ritual combo decks are always of the Bob variety instead of Oath, I find Misstep to be mandatory x4 in all builds. To answer the original question, I run Misstep there solely to counter other Missteps targeting my first turn Ritual. Other combo decks are less likely to pop Ritual on the first turn (since their ideal opening isn't Ritual, Duress, Bob), but you still see those builds running Misstep in some amount as well - which just speaks to its overall power and versatility. 

[Samoht]

One of the key values of misstep, though, vis-a-vis other countermagic, is that it can protect your Dredge answers, like Leyline, Cage or Jailer.  

They are mostly on Wispmare and Ingot Chewer for this reason alone.

GI - did you mine the data on top 8 lists that ran blue at the core and played 0 Misstep? I know AJ and I recently have cracked a few, are there others eschewing the card as well?

[Grand Inquisitor]

blue at the core and played 0 Misstep

AFAIK morphling.de can only search by a single criteria.  This could still easily be done by doing something like "search for FoW" and then look through all of the lists, but I don't have that kind of time.

I do remember that Jaco's Tezzerator from last year's GenCon is one of the lists that stuck out to me for this reason.

[Samoht]

blue at the core and played 0 Misstep

AFAIK morphling.de can only search by a single criteria.  This could still easily be done by doing something like "search for FoW" and then look through all of the lists, but I don't have that kind of time.

I do remember that Jaco's Tezzerator from last year's GenCon is one of the lists that stuck out to me for this reason.

I don't have the time either, was hoping someone else had. Oh well.

[WhiteLotus]

No need to take more than 5 minutes if you go right here

[Grand Inquisitor]

http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Vintage&aname=&pos916=on&main=Force+of+Will&nomain=Mental+Misstep&side=&noside=&strict=on


Archetype   Format   Player   Tournament Name   Position   Date
Dragon   Vintage   Oscar Basart   LCV 2013 - December - Final tournament - Barcelona    10    28/12/2013
Gush Storm   Vintage   Guillem Ragull   LCV 2013 - August    11    31/08/2013
Fish   Vintage   Omar Nieto   LCV 2013 - August    15    31/08/2013
Oath   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - August    16    31/08/2013
Gush Storm   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - July    11    27/07/2013
Almost Broken   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - June    11    29/06/2013
Snapcontrol   Vintage   David Pla   LCV 2013 - May    15    25/05/2013

[Samoht]

http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Vintage&aname=&pos916=on&main=Force+of+Will&nomain=Mental+Misstep&side=&noside=&strict=on


Archetype   Format   Player   Tournament Name   Position   Date
Dragon   Vintage   Oscar Basart   LCV 2013 - December - Final tournament - Barcelona    10    28/12/2013
Gush Storm   Vintage   Guillem Ragull   LCV 2013 - August    11    31/08/2013
Fish   Vintage   Omar Nieto   LCV 2013 - August    15    31/08/2013
Oath   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - August    16    31/08/2013
Gush Storm   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - July    11    27/07/2013
Almost Broken   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - June    11    29/06/2013
Snapcontrol   Vintage   David Pla   LCV 2013 - May    15    25/05/2013

Yeah, doesn't have me or AJ's lists so it's pretty incomplete.


AJ is listed as Rogue, mine as Oath (no Oath's) and both have 4 FoW 0 Misstep. Yeah, great site!

[WhiteLotus]

http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Vintage&aname=&pos916=on&main=Force+of+Will&nomain=Mental+Misstep&side=&noside=&strict=on


Archetype   Format   Player   Tournament Name   Position   Date
Dragon   Vintage   Oscar Basart   LCV 2013 - December - Final tournament - Barcelona    10    28/12/2013
Gush Storm   Vintage   Guillem Ragull   LCV 2013 - August    11    31/08/2013
Fish   Vintage   Omar Nieto   LCV 2013 - August    15    31/08/2013
Oath   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - August    16    31/08/2013
Gush Storm   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - July    11    27/07/2013
Almost Broken   Vintage   Pau Cantero   LCV 2013 - June    11    29/06/2013
Snapcontrol   Vintage   David Pla   LCV 2013 - May    15    25/05/2013

Yeah, doesn't have me or AJ's lists so it's pretty incomplete.


AJ is listed as Rogue, mine as Oath (no Oath's) and both have 4 FoW 0 Misstep. Yeah, great site!

My link shows a lot more results, I believe there may have been an issue with Grand inquisitor's link since it looks like it displays only results from 10th position or above.

[Grand Inquisitor]

My link shows a lot more results

Yep, I was hasty and didn't realize T16 was exclusive to T1-8.

http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=0&nhigh=0&dlow=0&mlow=0&ylow=0&dhigh=0&mhigh=0&yhigh=0&player=&dname=&format=Vintage&aname=&pos1=on&pos2=on&pos34=on&pos58=on&pos916=on&main=Force+of+Will&nomain=Mental+Misstep&side=&noside=&strict=on

The naming conventions are a train wreck though.  "Fish" could be anything from EsperBomber to Merfolk.  "Gush Control" was mostly the version that's 1/2 Landstill, but one of them was RUG Delver.  Jace control usually had Dark Confidant, but included one of those TVKey/Draw7 lists.  So with a grain of salt:

"Control" - 56
Tezzerator   13
Gush Storm   9
Jace Control   9
Oath   7
Gush Control   3
Keeper   3
Snapcontrol   3
Bomberman   2
Drain Tendrils   2
Landstill   2
Painters   2
Control Slaver   1

"Combo" - 13
Almost Broken   5
Dragon   5
TPS   2
Doomsday Maniac   1

"Tempo" - 13
Fish   9
Merfolks   2
Stoneblade   1
Threshold   1

"Other" - 19

This composition totally refutes my summary above.  I'd have to really look through lists before trying to draw more conclusions.  But at least here you can see a huge sample of blue strategies that did not run Misstep.

Edit: Much of the combo/control stuff really deserves more nuance.  Eg, Dragon can often play a more control/attrition game.  Tezzerator/Oath/Gush Storm can all be consistent turn 3 decks, etc.

PPS: ...also, thanks WhiteLotus, great resource.

[Smmenen]

One of the key values of misstep, though, vis-a-vis other countermagic, is that it can protect your Dredge answers, like Leyline, Cage or Jailer.  

They are mostly on Wispmare and Ingot Chewer for this reason alone.

A quick look at the last ten Dredge decks to top 8 Vintage tournaments, as recorded on Morphling.de, suggests that this is not true.

Chain of Vapor and Nature's Claim (along with other one casting cost answers like Firestorm, etc) are still the slight majority vis-a-vis Wispmare/Chewer or are found in equal amounts. The January Cambridge Top 8 is illustrative.  7 Chain of Vapors and 8 Nature's Claims to 8 Chewers and 7 Wispmares.  (EDIT: When you count maindeck and sb).

When you count other cards, like Darkblast and even maindeck or SB Mental MIsstep, then Missteps have even more targets.

Someone could do a deeper empirical analysis, but I suspect that my small sample is probably representative, not necessarily of the ratios, but of the general claim.  

[Samoht]

One of the key values of misstep, though, vis-a-vis other countermagic, is that it can protect your Dredge answers, like Leyline, Cage or Jailer.  

They are mostly on Wispmare and Ingot Chewer for this reason alone.

A quick look at the last ten Dredge decks to top 8 Vintage tournaments, as recorded on Morphling.de, suggests that this is not true.

Chain of Vapor and Nature's Claim (along with other one casting cost answers like Firestorm, etc) are still the majority vis-a-vis Wispmare/Chewer.  The January Cambridge Top 8 is illustrative.  7 Chain of Vapors and 8 Nature's Claims to 2 Chewers and 5 Wispmares.

Someone could do a deeper empirical analysis, but I suspect that my small sample is probably representative, not necessarily of the ratios, but of the general claim. 

I see a lot of MD/SB Chewers and SB Wispmare's in a lot of the lists as well. Sure, versatility is always good regardless of which pillar you are under.  They are going to play catch all answers like Claim and Chain**to a lesser extent** but that doesn't make Misstep the best answer against Dredge to protect your hate. It's a complimentary piece at best. I've had success with Misdirection and other awkward cards beating the versatile answers because they are easier to interact with.

Let's not also forget that just looking at t8 lists for Dredge isn't exactly representative inherently on ideal lists. It is a deck that punishes the unprepared or mulligans harder than most. It's high variance is what leads to a lot of misunderstanding regarding it's success.  I'd want to look into more information like meta analysis and even specific pairing reports. I'm not sold on just taking lists off the internet and drawing conclusions without understanding much more information about them then is really possible. Extrapolating from imperfect data leads to bad places.

I'll admit that it's an archetype I know little about aside from how to attack it. The people who I know that delve significantly deeper into the Dredge waters swear by Chewer and Wispmare in their lists. Aside from dodging MM, they also synnergize with Bridge and even Dread Return. I'll take their words for it that those cards should be in the 75 of competent Dredge players.

[Smmenen]

One of the key values of misstep, though, vis-a-vis other countermagic, is that it can protect your Dredge answers, like Leyline, Cage or Jailer.  

They are mostly on Wispmare and Ingot Chewer for this reason alone.

A quick look at the last ten Dredge decks to top 8 Vintage tournaments, as recorded on Morphling.de, suggests that this is not true.

Chain of Vapor and Nature's Claim (along with other one casting cost answers like Firestorm, etc) are still the majority vis-a-vis Wispmare/Chewer.  The January Cambridge Top 8 is illustrative.  7 Chain of Vapors and 8 Nature's Claims to 2 Chewers and 5 Wispmares.

Someone could do a deeper empirical analysis, but I suspect that my small sample is probably representative, not necessarily of the ratios, but of the general claim.  

I see a lot of MD/SB Chewers and SB Wispmare's in a lot of the lists as well.

No doubt.  Wispmare and Chewer are very popular, but my only point was that I don't think they are more popular than the cards that are answered by Mental Misstep.  You said that Wisp/Chewer were a majority, and while it may be close, I don't think that's true.

Sure, versatility is always good regardless of which pillar you are under.  They are going to play catch all answers like Claim and Chain**to a lesser extent** but that doesn't make Misstep the best answer against Dredge to protect your hate.

No doubt -- but I didn't say that Misstep was the best answer to Dredge's answers to your hate.  I simply pointed out that Misstep gets alot of value that it otherwise wouldn't because it happens to answer so many of Dredge's most common answers to your hate.  Firestorm, Darkblast, Nature's Claim and Chain of Vapor are very common, and it also matters that you can counter a Cabal Therapy.

It's not a matter of best -- it's a matter of having *some* value.  To the extent that Misstep can counter a turn one Chain/Nature's Claim with a Turn 0 Leyline, that's extremely important, since only Force can do that as well.

Let's not also forget that just looking at t8 lists for Dredge isn't exactly representative inherently on ideal lists.

That's a totally separate issue though.  The question here isn't whether Dredge decks with more Chain/Nature's Claim than Wispmare are ideal. The question is whether Mental Misstep has value in the Dredge matchup.  I think the answer is unequivocally yes.  

It is a deck that punishes the unprepared or mulligans harder than most. It's high variance is what leads to a lot of misunderstanding regarding it's success.  I'd want to look into more information like meta analysis and even specific pairing reports. I'm not sold on just taking lists off the internet and drawing conclusions without understanding much more information about them then is really possible. Extrapolating from imperfect data leads to bad places.

Except this doesn't matter for a number of reasons.

First, to get value from Misstep in the Dredge matchup they only need to play *some* number of Chains, Claims, Darkblast, etc.  So, even if Dredge players played less of these than Wisp/Chewer, Misstep would still have some value.  After all, they are always going to have Therapy and some 1cc spells.

Second, the question isn't how to beat the "ideal" dredge list, but how to beat the one you most expect to see.

The idea of trying to beat the best deck seems like a classic metagame error.  You only need to beat what you face, not what LSV would play.  

Third, I don't think there is an objective way to determine what metagame is 'best.'  That's the point of a metagame -- they are all contextual.

Dredge isn't a deck that really cares about metagame that much anyway, speed combo excepted.   The strength of Dredge in any environment is basically directly proportionate to the amount of Dredge answers in that environment.  Therefore, metagame considerations of the kind you are talking about aren't really relevant.  

I'll admit that it's an archetype I know little about aside from how to attack it. The people who I know that delve significantly deeper into the Dredge waters swear by Chewer and Wispmare in their lists. Aside from dodging MM, they also synnergize with Bridge and even Dread Return. I'll take their words for it that those cards should be in the 75 of competent Dredge players.

I don't doubt that some optimal list of Dredge probably has a mixture of Wispmare and Chewer -- but that's not the issue here.  The issue is whether Wispy and Chewy are more popular than 1cc answers (they aren't), and whether Misstep has value against Dredge (it does).  

I've had tremendous success using Mental Misstep against Dredge.  Yes, you still have to deal with Chewer and Wispmare, but my favorite anti-Dredge package is 1-2 Jailers and 4 Leylines.  Misstep hits virtually every answer they have to Jailer (except Unmask and Contagion), and stops all of the answers to Leyline except Wispmare.  I can't remember the last time I lost to Dredge with that package.  Possibly never since Misstep was printed.

[gkraigher]

I've always been an advocate of playing mental misstep over chalice of the void in mud--especially out of the sideboard.  The reasoning behind it is that you get unadulterated mental missteps against a blue opponent who has sideboarded them out against you.  They are basically walking on a field covered in land minds but don't know it.  All of a sudden, one land hands with ancestral recall on the play are unknowingly awful keeps.  

Misstep is certainly boarded in against dredge, with great effect.  Sure ingot chewer gets around it (as well as chalice) but it is still a fine answer to cabal therapy, nature's claim, and chain of vapor.  

To me, as a MUD player, the debate is between Chalice of the Void and Mental Misstep as to which one should be played, and I view them as very similar cards.  I don't know many other MUD players who think this way, nor have I ever seen it in another player's deck list, but it is the way I see it.  I choose Misstep because it is better on the draw than chalice is and almost as powerful on the play.  Chalice's main advantage is being able to be played for 2, which takes hurkyl's recall out of the equation, but also prevents me from playing spheres and revokers as I draw them.  I reserve the right to change my opinion based on the meta. 

1-2 Jailers and 4 Leylines.... I can't remember the last time I lost to Dredge with that package.  Possibly never since Misstep was printed.

Steve, I never knew you as one for absolutes    It is certainly a strong package.  I've never quite understood why dredge players don't run 4 darkblast main.  

[kwis]

Misstep is terrible when you are on spheres etc, whereas chalice has a lot of synergy with it.

Also, misstep is poor synergy together with tangle wire, whereas chalice isn't.

[tribet]

I can't see any poor synergy between Misstep and Tangle wire.

In fact I see no synergy nor antisynergy. I can see both working along side in decks. Whether MUD is that deck, gkraigher's opinion was interesting.

[diopter]

I haven't seen MM in MUD but that's interesting, especially about the comment about their power on the draw.

I think MM and Tangle Wire aren't synergistic per se - but they are both great as they don't lose lose much (if any) power on the draw. Meanwhile, Shop's nut draws on the play vs. most UBx combo-control decks are Golem or Chalice-2. With a maindeck that looked like this:

4 Golem
4 Chalice
4 Tangle Wire
4 MM
4 Serum Powder - to find the exact nuts you need depending on play/draw

X stuff to capitalize on the time walks from above

... you could easily see a very focused and powerful Shop build emerge.

[WhiteLotus]

Well I'd rather Mud opponents play missteps than chalices, Chalice is one of the best lock pieces alongside with tangle wire, Lodestone and smokestack. Chalice just shuts off entire hands or strategies whereas misstep will only be effective once. But then I'm not at all a shop expert so maybe I'm totally wrong.

3 missteps seems like the right number since 4 is too much for most decks because it's simply not effective in a number of matchups or situations. Although i think some decks like Oath or dredge should definitely run 4 to fight against cage and other 1 drops hate.
But only 2 means you're most likely to loose misstep wars, and unable to protect your 1 drops or disrupt your opponent's.

Usually it's better to have a diverse set of counterspells; something like 1-2 flusterstorm/Trap, 4 fows, 3 misstep, a number of drains and/or spell pierces and eventually 1 spell snare or misdirection depending on the deck. Running 4 missteps limits your choices and it won't do much against hatebears and workshops for instance. So it's probably best to have 1 spell pierce or spell snare instead of the 4th misstep.
I guess it depends of people, some would rather have a lot of 1of answers for more versatility while others would rather have 4ofs of the spell they consider most efficient for their purpose.

On the dredge part, I agree that Wispmare and Ingot chewer are some of the most efficient answers they have as they synergize with Bridge as well as evading mistep, spell pierce, flusterstorm, chalice and thorn.
To fight them I think misstep is definitely strong though since while they usually have 4 chewers and 3 wispmare between main and side most of the other spells they have to fight your hate cost 1 mana (nature's claim, darkblast, misstep, chain of vapor, cabal therapy).

Since someone was talking about their dredge hate package, the best hate to use against them IMO are Ravenous Trap, Extirpate/surgical extraction and Yixlid jailer. They tend to only run 2 darkblast in the main 0 in the side to fight jailer, and they have no answers for either Trap or extirpate except proactive ones like cabal therapy and Unmask. Leyline, cage, RIP, tormod's crypt are all to vulnerable to Wispmare/chewer, nature's claim, chain of vapor, ...etc

[Ozymandias]

I've had tremendous success using Mental Misstep against Dredge.  Yes, you still have to deal with Chewer and Wispmare, but my favorite anti-Dredge package is 1-2 Jailers and 4 Leylines.  Misstep hits virtually every answer they have to Jailer (except Unmask and Contagion), and stops all of the answers to Leyline except Wispmare.  I can't remember the last time I lost to Dredge with that package.  Possibly never since Misstep was printed.

For what it's worth, my current 75 for Dredge has 4 misstep, chewer, wispmare, and claim, plus 3 Darkblast and 3 chain of vapor. I find that I almost always keep in the full set of missteps post-board, precisely because of misstepping misstep. The only possible exception is when I am literally boarding in all 15 sideboard cards and I am desperate for space.

[Smmenen]

The cuts the other way, of course, since you having even more 1cc spells means that my Missteps are stronger as well.   I have faced Dredge with Missteps before for that reason, but I found my Missteps were great because of it. 

[Soly]

I've always been an advocate of playing mental misstep over chalice of the void

Um... anyone else notice this?

[msg67183]

I've always been an advocate of playing mental misstep over chalice of the void

Um... anyone else notice this?

Tom Dixon made a comment on Facebook about it. Makes me laugh!

[Samoht]

I've always been an advocate of playing mental misstep over chalice of the void

Um... anyone else notice this?

Tom Dixon made a comment on Facebook about it. Makes me laugh!

I just mentioned that I didn't understand it or even how to talk about it. Like, Chalice of the Void might be the 2nd or 3rd best card in MUD decks and it has so much synergy with their plans and cards while MM hits almost nothing relevant and is hard to cast through most of the plans. If it works for him, by all means continue, but it blew my mind to read.

[nedleeds]

I guess the use case is: on the draw Mental Misstep can surprise a player hoping to make a back breaking 1 CC play (recall, perhaps a ritual, maybe fastbond into <barf>).

The use case seems very narrow when weighed against the power of chalice (like... countering all future 1 CC spells).

I might rather play Chancellor of the Annex.