[CNS] Grezo, dungeon warder

[xouman]

Another weird conditional CA, this time in BR. I love the flavour, another uncounterable way to put creatures into play, but it's not really reliable. It improves a lot with scry, and some people are looking for ways to put cards from grave into bottom of the library (there are few), but this way does not feel ok in vintage. Howver , preordains and magma jet are playable (not so sure about magma jet) and work wonders with this goblin rogue. Still, you want to play creatures, no instants and sorceries.

Thoughts?

[Soly]

I think you are reaching way too deep for a playable card in colors that aren't that great for an aggressive deck.

[xouman]

That's right, this is not a card for an aggressive deck. Probably good in EDH, but the more I look at it, the worse it feels in vintage.

But's it's cute :p

[MaximumCDawg]

Conspiracy is turning out to be a remarkably shallow set for Vintage.  It has lots of really fun, interesting mechanics and looks like a blast to draft or stick in your powered cube, but I've been really surprised that Mr. Fayden seems to be the only real Vintage card so far.

I do think that Grenzo is one of the better cards in the set so far, though. And I think he actually is playable ina big mana Goblin deck, if that kind of thing existed.  Break him down for Goblin decks:

1. He's RB, so the casting cost is tolerable.  It doesn't get cheaper with Warchief, but he does get bigger since the X gets reduced.
2. He's a late game mana sink.  He'll basically always be an X/X for X mana, so he scales very well.
3. If your deck is mostly Goblins anyway, he'll reliably be generating another Goblin for 2 mana. 
4. He synergies nicely with Wort, Boggart Auntie.  She'll let you recover the binned Goblin if it didn't come into play for some reason.

All in all, I think you could do much worse than this card if you were looking for another Goblin that also functions as a way to gain cards in the midgame.  So, if we're looking at a RB controllish Goblin list, he's not really that bad.

So, Grezo may be narrow, but I think he's worth watching.

[evouga]

Are there any particularly juicy creatures he can cheat into play?

Gigantomancer?
Dupicant?
Modular stuff?
Prime Speaker Zegana?
Trostani's Summoner?

[vaughnbros]

He doesn't seem playable at first glance, but when you really think about he has a lot of potential. 

His ability isn't really that hard to set up.  Any card that can put something on the bottom of your library, like any scry card, impulse, conjurer's bauble, telling time, just to name a few decent options, plays extremely well with him. 

He also only costs BR and his ability only costs 2 colorless and can be used at instant speed as many times as you want a turn. 

For these reasons I'm fairly confident if someone were to spend the time building something around him, he could make a pretty solid brew.

[MTGFan]

This might be a decent draw engine in BR Goblins.. but more suited for Legacy than Vintage.

Then again, is this better than simply chaining Ringleaders? Or playing Wort?

[Demagoguery]

I think this guy is fine in a Goblins deck, especially since he doesn't need to tap to use his ability. If you look at it, almost all of the goblins are 2 power, so if you hit a Matron/Ringleader/Siege off this guy you're in really good shape.

In a lot of ways he plays very similarly to Lackey, except he's a fixed version since he doesn't combo quite as well and doesn't offer multiple hits based on your hand. However, he does have the ability to get big quick... Maybe if we get an efficient Scry Goblin dude he'll be playable?

[AmbivalentDuck]

The biggest thing I notice is that he's dramatically better in a deck with more critters: ie. Legacy Goblins. The core of a Vintage Gobs deck is 4x Lackey, 4x Matron, 4x Earwig Squad. You might add another 4 gobs to round it out. You're mostly playing stuff like Rakdos Charm, Mental Misstep, and Surgical Extraction to keep you from getting blown out of the water by "better" decks before some 1/1s matter. The deck went to shit with the printing of Deathrite Shaman, though, since suddenly everyone can reliably block Lackey without losing their draw engine (Bob) doing it.

[JarofFortune]

If a Welder Survival deck ever becomes popular, this might be good as a one of. It is likely to hit something, and has synergy with welder if you run non creature artifacts like tangle wire. Kind of a stretch though.

[brianpk80]

It's one of the more interesting ways of getting Kiki-Jiki into play.

[Demagoguery]

If a Welder Survival deck ever becomes popular, this might be good as a one of. It is likely to hit something, and has synergy with welder if you run non creature artifacts like tangle wire. Kind of a stretch though.

Kalonian Hydra is a really fast clock and a 0/0.