[Article] Finished Product: Matchup Series: Psychatog v. TnT

[Smmenen]

The full article may be found here:

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6567

This will be the trend for the next few months.  Read it, let me know what you think, and suggest matchups you'd like to see for the next few articles.

Steve Menendian

[Dr. Sylvan]

A good read. I was particularly surprised by how often the Hulk deck pitched AKs to FoW.

Request: Madness or Oshawa vs. something with Workshops. Or some Madness deck against Keeper. Mostly I want to see Bazaars on one side of the table without any Dragons accompanying them. :)

[Smmenen]

So far I've been toying with:

Spoils Mask v. Big O
Tog v. Spoils Mask
Tog v. Keeper

Those are just the one's floating around in my brain.  

Big O v. Tog would be too much of the same as this article I'm afraid.  I also don't really want to do Stax becuase I don't want to scare people or raise a hype about Trinisphere.  I'd also rather not do Tendrils combo or Slavery for similar reasons. My new policy is to try and avoid sensationalizing decks becuase I've had too many of my favorite decks restricted - the last one being particularly painful.  

I can understand if people don't want me to spend time on Spoils Mask, but I think it might be worth the time and effort.  My goal is to help establish a baseline of Type One knowledge that can be referenced and understood - so using decks that people are likely to face is ideal.  

Bring on the suggestions.

Steve

[Tristal]

Absolutely Tog vs Keeper.  For some reason, that matchup's always been hard for me to wrap my brain around (About the only answers I have as a Keeper player are Matrices and a lot of REBs!)  Another point of view on it would be fabulous.

[ctthespian]

Steve,

Great article I love the idea of show of showing how two decks matchup vs each other.  One interesting thing is that you had not answers in your sideboard for the GAT/TOG matchups.  There are many cards that help the matchup like Duplicant, Forcefield and Sentinel.   Duplicant and Sentinel both having the advantage of operating with Survival and being artifacts that can be welded.  However all 3 are vulnerable to artifact hate.  In the New England metagame, I've always incuded some answer to GAT/TOG.

I'd agree with you that Aincent Tomb may have been a mistake.  I'd have to say that Workshops are a curse and a blessing to TNT.  It helps tremendously to get that quick fat creature out.  However the evolution of TNT has introduced many non-artifact cards that are as important to it function as the quick creatures.  In my expierence with TNT there are often times that I sense a disruption in rhythm because I decided to drop or wait dropping a Workshop instead of a land.  So I can see why adding the Tombs may have been a way to help smooth out the mana base ad add both fast mana for both artifact and non-artifact cards.

-Keith

[Windfall]

Keeper vs. Tog would be a really good read I think.  Tog would have some interesting decisions to make, like whether to play combo or aggro or control against Keeper.  Also, I wonder how well Tog would do against Keeper's massive mana denial element.  On the flip side, I wonder how well Keeper could deal with Tog's insane bursts of energy followed by a 1-turn clock.  I am building both decks right now and I will have the opportunity to test as as soon as I find some black bordered Underground Seas, but a match of the elites is always fun to watch and read about.

On the Mask idea, I would love to see Spoils-Mask played against any of the top decks of Type 1.  I play Spoils-Mask right now and I love it, but at the same time it has its weaknesses.  The potential of Masknought is huge, and I want to see it improved even further.  By examining professional matchups, we can discuss what happened and make changes for the better, like Steve's revelation with Ancient Tomb.

As for Long.dec being killed, I feel your pain, Steve.  I spent a good deal of time upgrading the pieces for it.  When the restrictions hit, I was left with a bunch of cards that nobody wanted.  At the same time, I loved playing a combo deck that actually worked and took loads of skill.

Craze about Trinisphere... I'm leaving my mind at "it will do interesting things to Type 1."

I like Smmenen's Hulk Smash 2K4 a lot.  I would like to see that build in a future Tog matchup you post.  It seems that Tog is a popular deck to see matchups for.  I think you are right on when you say Tog should avoid dipping into control's card pool with Shamans, strip effects, and Stifle.  I would like to see some professional testing with an agressive Tog that likes to play as a combo deck.

     ~Mark B.

[Jacob Orlove]

Root Maze in TnT would make Anger pretty much moot. It also stops your fetchlands. I doubt it's even worth testing.

[Zherbus]

Smmenen, if you decide to do Keeper versus Tog, I'd like to participate somehow. (Tristal, don't use Matrix. STP is better in that matchup and even then, you generally don't like seeing STP)

[Dr. Sylvan]

Smmenen, if you decide to do Keeper versus Tog, I'd like to participate somehow.

Obvious article title: "War of the Steves"

I would fully expect this quote to be cited on the example game of Z destroying Tog, from the old TMD quotes thread (edited SCG-style):

[Zherbus]: FACT
[Zherbus]: OR
[Zherbus]: FICTION
[Zherbus]: IN YOUR PUNKA** TOGGIN FACE
[Zherbus]: and i have a LoA in my hand
[Zherbus]: time to f***ing REMIND S*** WHAT DECK IS TIER 1

Smmenen: If using decks people are likely to face is ideal, then Spoils Mask is not something you want to bother with, barring an unforeseen metagame shift. It seems to me that people with Masks play Vengeur almost always, and Spoils Mask hasn't demonstrated tournament success. I think we'd all rather see War of the Steves. :)

[Smmenen]

Smmenen, if you decide to do Keeper versus Tog, I'd like to participate somehow. (Tristal, don't use Matrix. STP is better in that matchup and even then, you generally don't like seeing STP)

I don't like to report testing from apprentice...I try to use apprentice just to get a feel for a deck.

I know you were hyped about the preview - What did you think of the final product?  There was much Hulk Smashing.

Steve

[Dante]

Steve - very well written and nicely summarized at the end (for the main point that TnT must be the aggro deck in this matchup).  Good to realize that the X. Swarm is poo in TnT (and similarly that  the S. Simulacrum is a 1-2 of, at best, not a 3-4 of, and definitely should NOT replace any Su-Chi.  But that's another discussion for the TnT thread).

As for the next article, I'd say Keeper vs Tog, anything vs Madness, or TnT vs O. Stompy [who IS the beatdown now?].

Dante

[Smmenen]

Thanks thanks.  

If I do the Keeper v. Tog article, I'll be playing BOTH decks.

The purpose of this series of articles is to EXPLAIN the matchups - not why one deck pwns another or to hype up or introduce any single deck.  I hope I succeeded here.  The broad brush I'm painting with will hopefully be applicable and referencable even after these decks have made several transitions.

Mask v. Big O might be a good next series.  

Steve

[Dante]

The purpose of this series of articles is to EXPLAIN the matchups - not why one deck pwns another or to hype up or introduce any single deck.  I hope I succeeded here.  The broad brush I'm painting with will hopefully be applicable and referencable even after these decks have made several transitions.

I think this past article accomplished what you set out to do.  

Some clarification as someone's who's played TnT successfully in the past - your game 5 opening hand is:

Mishra's Workshop
Taiga,
Taiga,
Wasteland,
Su-Chi,
Su-Chi,
Pyrostatic Pillar

and you are going second.  TnT (if properly built) is very resilient to mulligans and even going to 5, you can have a very strong game.  Going second, this is the type of hand you throw away since you'll have nothing until turn 2, barring a topdeck like Welder or Mox, and that's not the tempo you need to win with TnT.

In game 6, your hand was:

Mox Jet,
Mishra's Workshop,
Forest,
Ancient Tomb,
Juggernaut,
Survival of the Fittest,
and Goblin Welder.

you're going second, but he has UU (mox sapphire).  You draw Mox Sapphire turn 1 and ask about Juggernaut or Survival.  If you play workshop, mox turn 1, you can drop forest, mox turn 2 and if you happen to topdeck a 4 CC fatty (there are 7 left), you can play BOTH the fatty and Survival on turn 2.  On the flip side, since you don't have red mana for Welder/Anger, the survival is less useful to you and you might want to bait out the counter with it by casting it turn 1.  But I still think playing the juggernaut turn 1 is correct.

I think these both illustrate the concept of tempo that you wanted to show.