[Deck] Oshawa Stompy by Razor

[Zherbus]

I wanted to transfer this thread over here from the ass-boards, but the thread is huge and I'm not picking through comments on 8 pages.

Anywhere, here is the decks original post minus the report.

First, the decklist:

//Name: "Oshawa Stompy" v.1.4
//Ray Mitchell
//2003-DECEMBER-21
//ray@skeleton.org
//Cards: 60/15
//
//Mana Dirt: 16
10 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Petrified Field
//
//Alternative Mana: 11
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
//
//Toolbox: 28
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Arrogant Wurm
//
//Disruption: 5
2 Null Rod
2 Naturalize
1 Berserk
//
//Sideboard: 15
3 Ground Seal
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Naturalize
2 Null Rod
1 Silklash Spider
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 Scavenger Folk
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Genesis
//

At the end you may scroll down to review some of the card considerations that didn't make the final decklist.

Development History: I've been playing a lot of Red and Green Aggro-Control for the past two years. I enjoyed 4-of redundancy for the following: Gorilla Shaman (Monkeys), Dwarven Miner (Gay Dwarf), etc. in conjunction with Blood Moon.

I eventually decided in the fall to try Survival of the Fittest to see if I could increase both deck versatility and free up deck slots. It worked, but was a tad slow. Paul (bebe) encouraged me to try Elvish Spirit Guides (ESGs) to speed it all up.

Recently, after losing to a TnT variant sporting Bazaars over Survivals (Wayne's), I decided to test Survivals in conjunction with Bazaars. Both have great synergy with Squee. On the 17th, I started brainstorming a rough decklist for a mono-G Aggro deck abusing both the Survival and the Bazaar engines.

I knew I was onto something Friday night when Al (Wu Affiliate) said: "Oh my god! It has all of TnT's strengths and none of its weaknesses!" I knew then that I was driving a non-Workshop-based-TnT-style-Madness deck. WTF, eh? I do suspect that TnT is probably one turn faster off the mark; however, I am confident that this basic Forest-Vineyards deck is far more stable [read: less disruptable] and has better endurance than Workshop-based TnT.

I threw the pile together for some first-time testing (in several games of 6-man casual Emperor) late Saturday night.

I expect that ESG will prove itself better than Lotus Petal in here given its: surprise-value, immunity to Null Rods, unrestricted-goodness and pitchable-synergy with Survival of the Fittest [hereafter referred to as: SotF].

[ill_Dawg]

That list is already outdated, mostly just because the vinyards don't quite cut it in this deck.  The list I played most recently was:

Big O

Threats
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Hidden Gibbons

Hate
3 Null Rod
3 Root Maze
1 Gaea’s Blessing

Utility
2 Naturalize
1 Crop Rotation

Engines
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Squee

Mana
4 ESG
11 Forest
4 Waste
1 Strip
1 Lotus
1 Emerald

We Have to Play Out Game 2?
4 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Ground Seal
3 Troll Acetic
2 Naturalize
1 Ground Seal
1 Silklash Spider (tech)

For starters, I would like to cut 1 crypt, i ground seal, and the 4th root maze from the board to make room for 3 Drop of Honey, the more I think about it the more these things make sense.  They might be a little slow, but they're about the only removal green has to offer and they come down for a single G.

Also, I would like to turn the 2 naturalizes on the board into emerald charms.  They are a way to deal with flyers, an untap effect, and enchantment removal for G.  That has to be good, right?

Finally, one thing from the darksteel spoiler that I think deserves a spot is Tel-Jilad Zealots.  GG for a 2/1; 1G and sac: destroy target artifact or enchantment.  They're a little slower than naturalize, but they beat down instead of sitting in your hand waiting for a target and they up your creature count for survival, as well as being tutorable via survival.  Once darksteel becomes legal, I want to replace the MD naturalizes with these guys, and probably change things around a bit to make room for 2 naturalizes on the board, while still keeping the 2 charms.  This will probably include somehow stuffing the trolls into the main.

Thoughts / comments / rants are all welcome and appreciated

-=ADAM=-

[Hyperion]

4 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Ground Seal
3 Troll Acetic
2 Naturalize
1 Ground Seal
1 Silklash Spider (tech)

A small point that is easily corrected, but you have 5 Ground Seals listed in this sideboard...I'm assuming it should be the Root Maze you alluded to later in your post.

I think Drop of Honey is interesting but not sure if it's what this deck needs. It already runs Ground Seal for Goblin Welders and has Naturalize for TNT's fat, and as you mentioned it is on the slow side. Against other aggro decks it might be difficult to break the inherent synergy in the card.

Zealots are a natural inclusion in the deck, but I am not convinced Emerald Charm is better than Naturalize unless you have been having problems with a Chalice OT Void set at X = 2. The additional flexibility the Charm gives you buy untapping creatures and making other creatures lose flying is far less useful than the artifact removal you get with Naturalize.

For the most part I think a list like this is adequate, but now that the deck is being played more (you only have to look at the TMD Open results) I think it may be worth dedicating some SB space to cards that will just win the mirror matchup that would also be useful against other aggro decks, which Stompy is less prepared to deal with than it is against control.

One card that looked interesting to me was Dawnstrider: you could feed it endlessly with Squee, it's tutorable via Survival, and Stompy on the other side of the board will have a lot of difficulty dealing with it. It could also be potentially useful against other aggro/aggro-control decks that are light on removal, like GAT, Madness, and others, to buy you a lot of time.

In addition, in the mirror match, Stompy in its present form lacks a strong finisher that would be able to punch through a stalemate, instead relying on Survival to just overwhelm the opponent. However, when both players are relying on the same strategy, it becomes a less desirable strategy that, left alone, leaves luck as the determining factor. I am not sure if the manabase could support it but Silvos came to mind for addressing this issue. If you're able to run Silklash Spider in the SB, I'd think it could support 1 Silvos too.

These are just some preliminary thoughts. I might consider siding 1 Dawnstrider, 1 Silvos, and one other "bullet" creature in the space that you're trying to make room for Drop of Honey because they would both help against the mirror match and be generally useful against most other aggro and aggro/control decks as well.

[dicemanx]

Dawnstrider is an amazing idea for the mirror, but there's one problem - it's only a stall card, and it's so easy to create an unbreakable stand-off where the Strider is irrelevant regardless of which side its on. Perhaps the best solution is to couple the Strider with Rancors to punch through the stall; Rancors are perfectly viable MD cards to begin with. They help a lot with the aggro problem match-ups (particularly Madness and TnT), and they help vs Smokestacks. However, they require MD Trolls to be most optimal. Still, if every OS deck starts running a Dawnstrider, then even Rancors won't necessarily help. I'm not quite sure what would. Maybe a Masticore? OS is bound to SB out the Null Rods in the mirror, and a Core could be good vs Sligh/Suicide...

[Hyperion]

dicemanX- that's why I suggested Silvos, Rogue Elemental in conjunction with it (Dawnstrider) to break through the standoff.

[The Atog Lord]

Another option for breaking through in the mirror is Lumbering Satyr. It can act as a falter, letting you drop it and attack for the win in a single turn. While it does not get around Dawnstrider, it does let you win out of nowhere against such forest-packing aggro decks as the mirror, TnT, and Maddness.

[ill_Dawg]

Drop of honey would let you handle a standoff, whether it is a creature standoff or a dawnstrider standoff.  The current errata of the card says, much like the abyss, that if the creature becomes an invalid target nothing happens.  This means that if you have only your rootwalla or mongrel to target, you can target them and then pump to fizzle the effect.  It will never be symmetrical, and this deck has no way to deal with a resolved tog or a huge dryad, either of which can be a huge problem. Drop of honey lets you chump, take out the threat, then lay your beats.  It can also deal with meddling mages, flying fish, and most of the other creatures in the format.  Jacob ran three of them in Waterbury and had a lot of success with them, I believe they are worth testing.

-=ADAM=-

[Jacob Orlove]

Yeah, I ran them at Waterbury. They helped in a number of matchups. Being able to actually kill creatures removes a lot of random weaknesses that this deck shouldn't have: Meddling Mage, Grim Lavamancer, and Goblin Welder are all creatures that can cause huge problems, but the deck would otherwise have no answer to them. I tested Masticore, and found that it was just too slow, and took away too much mana from everything else. It also made it nearly impossible to get any advantage out of my Squees, particularly if my opponents SBd in Tormod's Crypts. Also, I'll often want to leave in my Null Rods (especially if the problem creature in question is Welder), and that makes artifact answers to creatures problematic.
   I was also running Treetop Villages and Mishra's Factories, however, which have synergy with Drop of Honey. Without those, I'm not sure if it'd be quite as good. YOu'd have to hold back more on dropping creatures. If you're going second, however, you can usually get a tempo advantage off the Drop. If they play a turn 2 creature, then the Drop gets to eat two of their creatures. If they don't, then the Drop eats their only creature and dies immediately, so that you get to be the first one to play a guy.