Madness....

[tehmajickguy]

I've recently begun doing a lot of testing with Madness in type 1, trying to test and tune the deck for the metagame and learn how to play it properly. As of late, it seems that Big O has become a rather popular deck, as has GAT. Its my goal to tune my deck to be able to beat those 2 easily, while being solid against the rest of the field. Heres the current build I'm testing with:

3 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Riftstone Portal
7 SoLo Moxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 LED
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Bazaar of Bahgdad
1 Forest

4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Wild Mongrel
4 Roar of the Wurm

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Careful Study
4 Deep Analysis

3 Anger
2 Wonder

Sideboard:

4 REB
3 Ray of Revelation
3 Artifact Mutation
3 Fiery Temper
2 Waterfront Bouncer

I read the Madness update that was posted on the Type 1 board, and I was curious as to a couple of the card choices that were made. First of which was the lack of ESG. Big O runs it and it seems to add so much to the deck. It allows for you to go off more easily, making madnessing Arrogant Wurms easier, and being able to pump your Rootwalla at key times possible. In the update, Fiery Temper was run main, and I suppose that was chosen over ESG. While I do like Temper in the MD, it tends to get boarded out most of the time for your situational cards in the board, and tends to stay in against Welder decks and budget aggro. Based upon this, I feel that its just easier to have the Tempers in the board so you can just bring them in when you need them. One thing I did like in the update, however was the addition of Waterfront Bouncer to the sideboard. Hes traditionally used in the Extended version of Madness, but is key in the Tog matches. Hes been testing extremely well, and I believe deserves a definite spot in madness sideboards.

Any comments/feedback would be greatly appreciated.

~Matt~

[Matt]

1. You're not playing LED?
2. What makes you want Riftstone Portal so much? It's not like you have a reliable way to get it when you want it.
3. You run 5 ESG (Petal) but you've cut the card that most wants to be ESG-ed into play faster: Wild Mongrel. What's with that? Also, More fast mana might make Timetwister and/or Windfall worth running (though both are clearly inferior to Wheel).
4. Speaking of which, Big O runs ESG because it can't run fully Powered (Null Rod is a big part of its strategy). Since you obviously can, ESG isn't needed so much (though it provides, in my opinion, the best replacements for artifact mana for those of us who aren't fully Powered, even better than Lotus Petal).
5. If you want to beat Oshawa and GAT, Wonders are a good choice. I see you're already using them, but I just wanted to make sure you don't cut them if those are the decks you're expecting to see.

[tehmajickguy]

I do run LED, I just forgot to post it. And I like portal in the deck because it helps against all the decks that have been running Blood Moon md and sideboard lately, and it allows me to run Ray in my board, which helps deal with stuff like Survival, Root Maze, Deeds when they don't the mana to activate them, ect...

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Though I'm no expert on the deck, I have played it a few times, and here are my thoughts:

4 Mongrels are a necessity. They get huge big and are a madness outlet to boot. You absolutely NEED 4 of these...roar on the other hand are only great vs. aggro.

The acceleration is enough. Seriously. Sure, the first few turns are dedicated to mana development, but the deck plays out really smoothly.  Big O is totally different deck than Madness. Just because it's packing ESG doesn't mean you have to.

Deep Analysis is AMAZING. It gets you out of stalls like you would not believe. I would definitely suggest playing a few. As for mana issues, you're running 26 mana sources, which by my count is a tad high. Anyways, if you want some good advice, I'd advise you PM Hyperion.

As for Madness vs. Big O and GAT, those matchups shouldn't be a problem. Both those decks have NO way of dealing with wonder, and Roar >>>>>>>> Troll Ascetic. Plus, you have a much more resilient draw engine compared to their clunky survival. Just be wary of Null Rods going rampant. That card can cause you some grief. Good luck with the deck.

[tehmajickguy]

*sighs* Yet again, I forgot to write down something from my deck list. I run a full set of Deep Analysis main deck. In regards to the ESG, its proven itself to me time and time again in testing, speeding the deck up a full turn at times, which can be critical. If at any point I remove the ESGs, I'll probably move the Tempers to the main, and put Ground Seals in my board.

[Hyperion]

I was curious as to a couple of the card choices that were made. First of which was the lack of ESG[...]It allows for you to go off more easily, making madnessing Arrogant Wurms easier, and being able to pump your Rootwalla at key times possible. In the update, Fiery Temper was run main, and I suppose that was chosen over ESG. While I do like Temper in the MD, it tends to get boarded out most of the time for your situational cards in the board, and tends to stay in against Welder decks and budget aggro. Based upon this, I feel that its just easier to have the Tempers in the board so you can just bring them in when you need them.

We did touch on those points you made about ESG in the primer update (that I bolded here). In fact, we did test a build for a little while with 4 ESGs in place of 4 Fiery Tempers. It does enable you to goldfish faster, but with that configuration I found myself getting mana flooded pretty often, in addition to missing just a great utility card. I would not be willing to run ESGs in place of permanent mana sources because you need a stabler mana base to resolve more threats against control and to be more resilient to Wasteland...which this deck is already susceptible to.

In regards to the point you raise about siding Fiery Temper...I would answer that it's a solid utility card but not powerful enough to merit SB space. It is arguably the weakest card in the maindeck but as was mentioned, it's just never a dead card. I would rather have a decent, but not fantastic card in the maindeck that's *never* dead rather than more potentially powerful, but sometimes dead, alternatives. Fiery Temper also keeps your opponent honest. The mere threat of it forces them to adjust their game plan.

Other comments:

I would give serious consideration to dropping the 4th Roar for a 4th Mongrel. I tested 4 Roars and found it was too many, and Mongrel is so crucial to the way Madness plays out.

Running 1 Riftstone Portal is too random; if I were to run a base dependent on Portal I would consider running two. I would argue that it doesn't need to be run at all, ESPECIALLY in a build with 4 ESGs. Blood Moon is an issue not because it shuts off your access to green mana sources- since you have a Forest, 4 fetches to get it, and Emerald - but because it shuts off blue mana sources and Bazaars. In other words, it is being used for the wrong reasons (in my opinion).

[wuaffiliate]

You run far too many mana sources, i've found 23-24 is plenty to support this deck. ESG is quite good, but atting them for business spells(temper) that do wonders for troublesome threats(welders & Co.) is not the way to go. As is stands now, madness is a very fast deck, ESG may make it marginally faster, but it hurts more than it helps, you need to be prepared for the metagame, not goldfishing. Tempers are just far less situational than ESG is, it deals with troublesome creatures and kills your opponent.

I've tested vs Oshawa Stompy quite abit with UGr madness and i can guarantee that you should never lose a match in a tourney unless you get extremely unlucky.

Also the way to make it more sucessfull vs aggro is to up the wonder count, not anger.

[bebe]

Just to touch on Fiery Temper ... Wu kicked my ass with that card last tournament. There are a number of fast aggro decks out there now and forcing an extra turn to win is sometimes all that Madness needs to win. I lost a spot top four to Wu/Hyperion's build after destroying O.Stompy which is much weaker against r/g beatz. Wonder is great against aggro but this is a meta dependent card even moreso than Temper as Temper is rarely useless even against control.  Temper is great against Stax as well.
 

ESG may make it marginally faster, but it hurts more than it helps, you need to be prepared for the metagame, not goldfishing.

So true. I pushed Razor to use these in O. Stompy because he needed them for Survival first turn and pumping Rootwallas was necessary in his build. I use them in FCG for first turn Food Chain. But Madness works off Bazaar so well that they are redundant extravagances.

[tehmajickguy]

I have read all the replies and have taken everything that was said into consideration. I've dropped the ESGs for now and moved the Tempers into the main deck, and put Ground Seals in their place in the sideboard. So far, the deck is doing fine without the ESGs, although I will admit the deck seems to be a little less explosive on turns 1 and 2. I played 15 games against GAT last night, and I'll try to write up a match up analysis a little later on, but I wound up going 12-3 pre-board.

~Matt~