Is Mono Black Suicide still viable in this year's meta?

[?ISuck@MTG?]

Is it? Personally, as a player of Sui I really would like to know, because well, I've been getting beat pretty bad lately, by all these artifact decks

For reference here's my deck:

-Creatures-
x4 Nantuko Shade
x4 Phyrexian Negator
x4 Hypnotic Specter

-Disruption-
x4 Duress
x4 Hymn to Tourach
x4 Sinkhole
x4 Chalice of the Void
x3 Null Rod

-Broken Fun-
xR Demonic Tutor
xR Demonic Consultation
xR Necropotence
xR Yawgmoth's WIN

-Mana-
x16 Swamp
x4 Dark Ritual
x4 Wasteland
xR Strip Mine
xR Sol Ring

Now, is this deck to slow? Its got the Duress, Hymns (In because of the lack of Misdirection), Sinkhole, Wastelands. Now the deck is obviously better w/ power, but I am a budget player, because I spend my money on more worth-while things (worth-while things in my opinion, if you want to buy power, that's your decision) and is Yawgmoth's WIN not practical enough? Do you get enough use out of it time and time again for it to be in the MD? My thought is no. Also, Hypnotic Specter has been a nice card recently for me. If it drops first turn, it is probably my favorite play, but 2nd turn and on it just doesn't seem good. Generally I find that my x4 Withered Wretchs help out with the matchup.

Card Picks:
Hypnotic Specter: Should I replace with x4 Withered Wretch? Or x4 Flesh Reaver? But if Flesh Reaver goes in, does Necro go out?

Chalice of the Void: This is in for all of those Moxes and Lotus out there, helps even out the field, at least in my opinion, or is it to much baggage for this deck?

Null rod: I love this card, just stops artifact decks, especially if I can get some LD going and take out some of their lands.

Yawgmoth's WIN: Viable? Or no?

Possibilities? Diabolic Edict? (not to practical if you ask me)

Plz let me know if you have any ideas

[RoadTrippin]

Suicide Black unfortunately really takes a swift kick square in the gonads vs. artifact prison. If you have access to these cards, they are a good "solution":
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rack and Ruin

[Anonymous]

Personally, I believe that you should drop the Null Rods in favor of Mishra's Factories or Diabolic Edicts- as well as the suggestion that RoadTrippin' made about having some artifact destruction.

[RoadTrippin]

The gist is that if you expect a lot of artifact decks, splashing red is a huge step in the right direction. It adds other options too, some use Gorilla Shaman, Blood Moon, and I personally like Flametongue Kavu a lot.

[Danzig]

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rack and Ruin

I use these along with Blood Moon.
 

[NXHawk]

I play a "normal" TnT and not some artifact prison, and its also a very bad matchup for Sui.
However to answer your question, if I look at the last Dulmen results, I would give Sui a try, all the keeper, MonoU Control matchups should prove quite interesting and winnable for Sui.

[FireFall26]

Yes, Bloody sui as it is called is much stronger in the current metagame.   Blood moon hoses, and shaman is good.  It also leads to goo sb options like rack and ruin.  This was a list I came up with:
        8 Swamp
        4 Badlands
        4 Bloodstained Mire
        1 Strip Mine
        4 Wasteland
        2 Gorilla Shaman
        4 Nantuko Shade
        4 Withered Wretch
        4 Phyrexian Negator
        1 Necropotence
        4 Duress
        4 Hymn to Tourach
        3 Cabal Therapy
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        2 Sinkhole
        3 Null Rod
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Black Lotus
        4 Dark Ritual
//  Sideboard:
SB:  1 Null Rod
SB:  3 Rack and Ruin
SB:  4 Chains of Mephistopheles
SB:  3 Blood Moon
SB:  3 Masticore
SB:  1 Diabolic Edict

[THENATE]

sui is a metagame call. if ur going to run into a lot of workshop decks dont play it. dont bother sideboarding for it either. the match up is like an auto loss, concentrate ur board for other match ups. it is great against control. that is what it is designed to beat
but i do think it is playable, just becareful with it

[?ISuck@MTG?]

Thanks for all the replies, I think I have some new ideas for the deck, mainly including a big ass pile of disruption with Blood Moon. I had been planning on changing it to Bloody for awhile (I traded for all the pieces for that deck) but never actually changed. Thanx all

[Yttric Ventus]

Grim Lavamancer is another great option.  

[Mage of Dreams]

In my modest opinion,

1) If your not seeing aggro, add 4 Flesh Reavers along with the rest of your creatures, you need to overwhelm quickly, and 16 critters are better then 12. I would drop the Chalice's for them. Chalice simply doesn't disrupt Prison enough, you would prefer to beatdown. Chalice is at best a S/B option.

2) Look into Sarcomancy, the 2 for 1 isn't bad against Stack/Wire, allowing your bigger threats another chance.

3) I run Power and 2 Diabolic Edicts in the Demonic Consultation, Sol Ring, Null Rod spots. I got something else in there too but damned if I remember off hand.  


Shawn

[timmy]

If your changing to suicide red(bloody sui) I would seriously consider shattering pulse in the maindeck, it will help you out in so many matches.  It also can destroy mask.  If you don't have room in the maindeck I would be sure to include 2, Which I feel to be the correct number, in the sideboard.

[FireFall26]

pulse is crap, you never have enough mana for buy back.  by the time you do, you've lost

[TheRealSuperman]

What about Sphere of Resistence??? 2 mana to lock down the opponent? just an idea...

- Rasmus

[blankpagez]

Having Bloody Sui is pretty good against artifact decks.Blood Moon totally kills all the Mishra's Workshops and Rack & Ruin just hoses the artifacts they play.How about Shattering Pulse for Bloody SUI ? How about splashing other colors into SUI ? Will other colors like WHite or even Green work better against artifact decks ??

I myself is a great supporter of SUI and I am debating myself what sort of color to splash. I think Green is kinda cool because you get to use Pernicious Deed and Naturalize. But If you add these cards, then it won't be SUI anymore.It'll be PT FUNK, I am just so confused on what to splash for my SUI.

[HuntedWumpus]

I would say that sui is still  viable, but some changes need to be made.

1st- Splash Red, Go Bloody.
-rack and run
-possible blood moon
- minus a little discard add a little burn

2nd- Play withered Wretch Mainboard.
- He helps deal with Squee and other graveyard using/base builds.

Ive seen Bloddy Sui be very crule to people. Most builds dont run Bolts or Chains, but in my experiance the one's that do often win. The Red splash also adds huge sideboard possibilites

For your maindeck i would do this
-4 Chalice of the void
-1 Null Rod
-1 Hymn to Tourach
-2 Negator
-1 Hippie

+4 Lightning Bolt
+2 Chain Lightning
+3 Withered Wretch

You may not like it, but there is alot of times where dropping negator is very scary. I play alot of black and have removed him totally or put him in the board. Since this is sui i leave you with 2 to play around with. Perhaps later you ill do

-2 Negator

+1 Wretch
+1 Hippie

- Fleash Reaver is another option if you like big fat creatures. hes probably safer than negator these days. Good luck

[?ISuck@MTG?]

@HuntedWumpus: It's just a personal thing, but I prefer Negator over just about every card in the deck, and is essential in applying pressure with Sui. 4-turn clock first turn is always nice to have on your opponend turn 1.

[blankpagez]

How about adding other colors into SUI ?
Adding green gives you Pernicious Deed and Naturalize.
Adding blue gives you Recoil and Shadowmage Inflitrator.
Adding white gives you Vindicate and Death's Grasp.
How about these colors ?? Will these colors improve SUI chances in the current metagame ??

[j]

No splashing please.. With 4 chalices and 3 Nullrods you have a shot at anything with power (even against stacks sometimes with 9+1 ways of getting rid of workshops).

disruption: (15)
4 Duress
4 Sinkhole
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Nullrod

creatures: (15)
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Flesh Reaver

other: (3)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will

mana: (27)
17 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual
1 Lotus Petal
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Card Choices:
No Hymn: Hippy and duress are enough to force things through.
Flesh Reaver: They say it's a metagame call but I have found Wretch too slow sometimes even against dragon.
No Necro: It sounds stupid but the BBB really slows the deck down. Perhaps in a powered deck but the 4 rituals are not enough to play the drawn cards fast enough.

[glenchuy]

red is probably the best color to go, as it gives you blood moon + rack and ruin, which are excellent against suicide's bad matchups

i use this build

mana (28)
8 Swamp
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby

disruption/control (15)
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Blood Moon
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Rack and Ruin

beatdown (14)
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Withered Wretch
3 Grim Lavamancer

broken stuff (3)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will

[Cpkrug]

red is a must in this deck.  as many have said, blood moon is great in here.  i would cut your null rods and depend on mox monkeys to take care of those people with moxes and stuff.

[RoadTrippin]

I'd like to see discussion of this deck continue as it seems to me that it's a very viable budget contender. Is anyone thinking about possible additions to the deck? I myself have had my eye on sideboard options particularly, and testing (albeit limited) has shown that 15 cards of the Dragon combo is a pretty great sideboard. Playing the deck, you obviously perform best vs. control and hope to disrupt combo fast enough to resolve a Blood Moon, but Aggro has always sort of been the kind of deck to steal a win from Bloody Sui, especially scrub aggro. Dragon Combo obviously helps to make amends to this situation, so I recommend (at least the testing of):
4 Dance of the Dead
4 Buried Alive
2 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Ambassador Laquatus
4 Animate Dead

One huge bonus of the 8 Animates is if you get paired vs. Dragon- you can side them in banking on them not having much experience with the deck (a trait more and more common concerning Dragon lately) and kill them by Animating their own creature.

[Tijnie]

I play Suicide for quite some time now. I Tried EVERY splash and none of them really made me happy.

Green was nice, Naturalize and Deeds really were a bomb. but the deck got a bit slow and too mana intensive (3 wretches, 4 shade's, 3-4 Deeds, negators and hippie were 3 mana too) all in all, this deck became really slow.
White, it looked sooo good on paper and sucked so hard on the bord. like the green splash, vindicate's cost 3 mana too and can't be dropped off a ritual. slow but very solid against any newbisch crappy deck   .
Blue... what's there to splash for blue?? Stifle's are great. a one mana Sinkhole instant speed for fetchies. Power was nice, but most strong blue cards want a blue deck and blue in suicide, just didn't want to work in Suicide it's style.
Red, Really strong yes, Blood moon can be so goddam powerfull. most match-ups inproved exept for the agrro matchup. This deck was losing to ANY deck that could stomp a bit.

Why do I say this?? well first of I never tried Grim Lavamancer in Suicide. I reallt LOVE them in my Gay/R and I think they are worth a great shot in Suicide. got to thank you guys for that idea   . What I do feel is that 4 Shade's are too much, With a Blood moon on the board, they won't grow so big anymore since 2/5 of your lands don't provide any Black anymore. With all the Lavamancers, how great is Y. Will??? Does it still deserve his spot. I know it sounds really waky to say: "Lets cut Y. Will" but can it be any good if you're shooting like hell with your Grims...

I like the list poster above. Dunno if R&R are better then Null Rod, mockeys are fine but they need alot of mana before you break it all down. I would play my Petal too, and 2-3 fetch more instead of swamps. with Lavamancers fetch are really great. and I would go 4 grims 3 Shade's but thats just my opion.
So, any though About Y. Will or the deck itself?

oyeah second thing: Dont try splashing any other color, it sucks