Investing seriously in T1

[black-tog]

I am thinking of seriously investing in T1. I own 0 power and 0 duals, and 0 Force of Will, so I imagine it will cost alot, and I've heard if you invest well in T1 you only have to do it once. So I was thinking of dumping lots of money into gro-a-tog, or masknaught. I particularly like the way gro-a-tog works (control is my favourite) but it will cost more. so is it worth it for me to invest a lot of money into gro-a-tog?

[xrizzo]

I think GAT would be an excellent way to start investing in Vintage.  Before you rush out and buy some cards, you should try to play some of the decks which you think you will enjoy.  

GAT is a very solid deck choice at the moment, but I think the most important thing in T1 is deciding your purpose.  If you just want to win, then you will need to acquire all the expensive cards and be prepared to bring the best deck possible to each tournament.  If you want to enjoy playing your deck, then you can buy a certain color (in addition to blue) and play decks which lend themselves to those colors.  If you are playing for other reasons, it is important to consider them ahead of time.

When you go out to acquire your cards, I would look to get this all in bulk.  There are many people getting out of magic right now, and they are eager to sell their P9 with other power cards (duals, drains, voids, etc) at a fair price.  Very few people are able to just drop $3-6K on cards - and a seller who wants quick money will be more than eager to make the deal.

[black-tog]

Sorry, but I've seen Stax, Academy, GAT and Keeper in action, and I already have the version of extended tog, and I love it, so I imagine GAT would be even more fun to play with. And It would also supply me with some of the cheap commons and uncommons for GAT. But is Pernicious Deed really worth running, and if it is, I'd like to run more than one copy.

[TheFram]

If you invest in Gro-A-Tog you will have most of the cards needed to play ANY control deck in the format. The only things you will need to get after playing Gro-A-Tog are Tundras/Volcanics and cheap white/red cards to play keeper.

Gro-A-Tog
Scott Limoges

2 Psychatog
4 Quirion Dryad

4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Black Lotus
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Duress
4 Force of Will
1 Gush
4 Mana Drain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind Twist
2 Misdirection
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

2 Flooded Strand
4 Island
3 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
 
1 Berserk
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Naturalize
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Tormod's Crypt

Cards from Gro-A-Tog that will be played in nearly any control deck:

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3/4 Underground Sea
2 Cunning Wish
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind Twist
(3 Tropical Island)
(2 Duress)
(4 Quirion Dryad)
(2 Psychatog)

* Cards in parentheses will be in some other control decks, but not most

Thats alot of overlap, so if gro is what you want to play, it definitely is a good investment.
 

[Hi-Val]

The first investments you need to make in T1 are going to be Force of Will and Duress (not that hard to grab!). These two cards just about define the environment and you will usually be running one if not both. If you are planning on running GAT, buy some Underground Seas as well, as they are useful in plenty of other decks as well. Your first power should probably be Ancestral. Beyond that, there are other threads on the forums for buy orders when getting power.

[Plainswalker]

I'm not really sure if you are new to magic, or you've been playing and have shown an interest in T1, you didn't really say. If your new to magic, then you probably shouldn't just go out and play Hulk/GAT. There are just to many things you need to know about control decks and other decks to just pick it up. Although you could debate that about old GAT  

If you aren't new to magic, then I still suggest you don't just go out and buy a bunch of power quick. By the way force of will is only like $7 as far as I know. Working with budget and half budget decks is still the way to go. There's a certain sense of pride building up towards having all the cards you need. Plus wheeling and dealing is fun, I got my Workshops for a total of something like only $200 when they were becoming popular, but were still like $80 a pop. It's an investment, but only if you do it smart.

Still, getting the pieces to a control deck are probably your best bet, whether you decide to play GAT, Keeper or something else, like The Fram said, one of the major T1 control decks cards can inter-changed with many of the others.

[black-tog]

I have played magic for 6 years, 3 years seriously, and T1 for a year, I already have a T1 Sui Black, I plan to use pieces of it to trade for some of the lower end pieces of GAT.  Is it reasonable to find beat up moxen for 90-100$? And when I start on this deck, I'm going to buy the power last, because It will take a long time to find a nice deal.

You are not sending a SMS. Please use no abbreviations or slang. Punctuation and capital letters are tech. I've edited all your 3 posts here.
-- Toad

[Moxlotus]

beat up moxen are around 200 now

[glenchuy]

imo, the expensive cards you need to get are ancestral, black lotus, mox you need, 4x cards you need for the core (workshop/mask/drain and FoW) mox you need, mox you'll likely need.  plus get duals in between,  unless you find a really good deal for the power cards, i'd probably suggest getting the duals first-

[Diddler]

If you're in a scrubby T1 metagame, you'll only be disappointed once you spend lots of money.  If other people in your area have P9 and such, I'm sure it'll be a great investement!

GAT is a really good idea for a deck to build; as has been mentioned previously it has most of the components you'll need for any control deck.  I personally think that Moxen and Ancestral are the first things you should get for your deck...

[Milton]

Buy a collection.  Seriously.  If a guy you know is selling out, buy the whole damn thing.  Trade what you don't need and trade carefully.

I have a great collection and it started when a friend and I paid $1,100 each for another guy's collection.  The guy let us pay him $100 a month with a $300 down payment until the collection was all paid off.  My buddy and I spend a day splitting the collection, which included an Alpha Lotus, a set of Legends, 3 or 4 Library of Alexanderia, 9 Mana Drains, dozens of Dual Lands...  Huge amounts of playable and tradeable stuff.  Since then, I have traded and built my collection to the point where it is very, very respectable.

And trade away your T2 stuff for Duals, trade your Duals for big stuff, like Drains.  Dual Lands are the currency that greases trades in T1.  Some people value them as high as $20 and are willing to give you good cards in trade for them.  Collect Duals low and trade them high.

[Cpkrug]

I would recomend proxying whatever deck that you would like to play.  Make sure that it is the right deck for you.  No matter what deck you decide to play, if you are a control player, you need ancestral recall first.
I started out with mask like you mentioned, and i had a great time with it, give it a try!  just my thoughts and good luck.

[Metanoia]

Whatever you do, go for the 4-ofs first
For example 4 manadrains is gonna cost about 200-240
a mox sapphire is gonna be about the same price, but the difference of playing with 4 drains is obviously much greater than playing with 1 mox

So for GaT:
Get the duals and fetchies first
I assume you have intuitions, AKs, wishes, tutors etc.
Get 4 FoW
Get a Berserk

Now you are ready to play budget GaT or Tog (run a Fastbond to compensate for the lack of moxen, and vanilla Counterspells in place of the Drains)

then get
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk

These are all HUGE in GaT/Tog with all the drawing and tutoring you'll play Ancestral and Time Walk EVERY GAME (and sometimes twice because of Will

then get 4 Man Drains

I don't care what some people say about mana-burn, it happens sometimes, but most of the time you'll be able to drain into a tutor and start the Intuition AK engine or you'll be to wish for an answer. Drain is awesome.

Finally get the artifact mana, this will speed up your deck considerably but is least important. I'd go with this order:

Black Lotus
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Mox Emerald
Ruby / Pearl

Hope this helps

[glimpsemask]

1st get the Lotus.. its price growing up every day..
2nd the Ancestral
3rd the Walk
....then the moxes

[rvs]

Al these orders of getting cards are really, really useless. It's fairly obvious which power you want first if you have a specific deck in mind.

Basicly, a good method to actually acquire power is wait for good deals. I suppose you don't need to be fully powered next week, so give it some time, and sit tight for good deals on either ebay, or local deals. However, buying collections is still the way go if you are starting up.

[FireFall26]

7 solo moxen are not necessary for gat....The best versions run jet, emerald, and sapphire.  Sapphire you'd get first, then jet, then emerald

[Pest]

Basicly, a good method to actually acquire power is wait for good deals. I suppose you don't need to be fully powered next week, so give it some time, and sit tight for good deals on either ebay, or local deals. However, buying collections is still the way go if you are starting up.

Definately, being an opportunist is the best thing you can do when buying these big, expensive cards. I had a friend who got 3 English Drains for 25 bucks each a little under a year ago. With paitience, comes great rewards.

also, before you get the power you need for a deck like GAT, you should try a lower budget deck to play in the meantime, so that that you can still play competitively. Gay/r is a great deck to start with, or even fish. Starting off with a deck that requires almost full power, Duals and stuff is a little crazy, unless you are rich and can afford it. well, that's my 2 cents.