Presenting: A Beautiful Mind

[Justin]

5c -got ya.

[NaClhv]

For the record, I would like to say that everything that Rakso says about me in his article and his post which mentioned the article in this thread is, well, wrong.  This is being discussed in Rakso's "rant" thread, and anyone wishing to discuss that further should go to that thread, as I would like to keep this thread free of clutter.

Rakso, Justin, ufactor:

If you want to reminisce about the bdominia days, discuss the quaility of posts at themanadrain, or otherwise talk about the type 1 jokes, go to the community, off-topic, or humor forums.  For myself, as the starter of this topic, I would like to get back to talking about the deck and playing magic.

If you don't believe that something I said is true, then explain why you think so, and back it up with any playtesting results you have, rather than just saying "yeah, right"

If you have a problem with me or my attitude, talk to me about it upfront, rather than doing this thread-hijack attempt and slandering me in front of others.

Now, hopefully we can go back to talking about the deck...

[psyduck]

Quote (Rakso @ July 09 2002,08:22)Now here's another thing I hate that I really hated back on BD...

Note that the post I'm quoting had ZERO content, a bunch of flames, and a dig at CooberP who I don't think is even on this forum.

What the fuck is this?

Anyone feel like venting testosterone, go to Afghanistan or someplace you'll be useful.

If anything, Coob was more credible.

Wow, im impressed, normally on BD alot of childish flames went by without your admonishment. Kudos. I have just smashed mc_bains keeper becaues i couldnt get you or CF to play against me (well CF also doesnt find the forum too appealing, so he won't be here to say much, blah), and i have the log available online too...

he went second turn ancestral recall, lotus, he mana drained my scroll rack, then timetwistered, then proceeded to mind twist me for 4.... Yet in the end, i still won. most decks do not come back from getting twisted, recalled against, and drained, etc. check the log, its a good example of what the deck is about.

[psyduck]

by the way, i am running a slightly different version than
nachiv, i dont quite believe in werebear so much, even though i understand its synergy with tax. here is my version. and yes, one of my favorite plays against void is to go powder keg, then play meddling mage naming powder keg.
I  think this version is a bit stronger but that could just be me.

Solmoxen
-----------
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mox Jet

Lands
-------
        2 City of Brass
        5 Island
        5 Plains
        2 Gemstone Mine
        3 Undiscovered Paradise
---
creatures


        1 Whirlpool Warrior
        2 Devout Witness
        3 Mystic Enforcer
        4 Meddling Mage

------
Others
        4 Land Tax
        4 Scroll Rack
        1 Demonic Tutor
        2 Back to Basics
        1 Vampiric Tutor
        1 Balance
        4 Force of Will
        1 Misdirection
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk
        1 Zuran Orb
        1 Yawgmoth's Will
        2 Powder Keg
        1 Trade Routes

[Justin]

nachlv - relax pal, youre not a mod.

[Nevyn]

I will treat this thread seriously whether I should or not. I don't buy your matchup numbers, and have non of my own to supply. I won't do my own testing for the same reasons I did not test the doomsady deck, and other such decks.

The reasons:

a) even if it is good, I don't want to play it.

b) I'm not worried about playing against it, so my testing time is better served on other decks.

If I'm wrong and get beat by this, so be it. ANyway, based on the cursory examination that is the limit I will go to of analysing this deck, here are my thoughts.

1) You have 4 pitch cards require a blue pitch, and only 14 blue cards (including the other pitch cards), ad this also includes cards like FoF and ancestral that you won't want to pitch.

2) You have maybe 12 white sources to get your land tax going. Any game where you do not draw (and RESOLVE) land tax you are likely to lose.

3) Whirlpool warrior makes my head hurt. It is wrong for many reasons, and only moderately right with land tax.

4) A lucky Wasteland/Strip hurts you badly, as does a mox monkey.

5) How random is mind twist here? When exactly will you have enough mana and support to actually cast this? When you are winning anyway? That's what I thought.

6) Devout Witness: I don't get it.Why exactly do you want your enchantment destruction to be slow and vulnerable again?

If this deck really does win what you say it does, congratulations, but people will not take your testing numbers as gospel for two reasons.

a) we don't know how you tested, who you tested with, what your practices were, etc. I can beat keeper 90% with sligh under the right test conditions, that doesnt make it a 90% in favour matchup.

b) We only have your word that you actually tested it at all.

[DigDug]

I see the creator is from Berserkley.  His deck makes so much more sense now.

[cooberp]

Looks like I'm going to have to defend myself on a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with Enchantress.

1) My original primer made it clear that it was based on online testing, when I was indeed going 50-75% against Keeper through a ton of games.  I included a disclaimer that I had not taken the deck to NG or played in a sanctioned tournament with it, so they had to be taken with a grain of salt.
2) My revised primer was written after I'd had something on the order of 10-15 sanctioned Keeper matchups at NG, and said the matchup was 50/50 because I was about one match over .500 in them (yes that includes the ghastly 0-4 at the $250 that included a match I had won but conceded because I wanted to go).  Look up my sanctioned results from December and January against Keeper players if you don't believe me.
3) Since then, I have played at NG a lot more and am no longer pulling 50% but more like 40.  I think this is because the Keeper players there are now more familiar with the deck and its weaknesses and know how to attack it and what to counter.  This is D'Avanzo's own assessment, I might add.  In addition, I was having a lot of trouble against anti-control Sligh.
I still think the deck is a solid Tier Two, and there's nothing save Null Rod Suicide Black that I'd rather play against a mono-U deck.  It was much better in the 4-FOF metagame, however, when mono-U was stronger, and there just haven't been enough good cards for it printed to elevate it any further (despite the fact that its three colors, GWB, were the focus of Torment/Judgment).  It gets Mana Drained and PoP'ed without a strong start.  I haven't been that vocal about it not because I feel I've had to "eat crow" but because a) I haven't spent as much time on MtG and b) I feel the deck has gotten about as good as it's going to get without help from Wizards in the form of new cards.  But I still think my sanctioned match record at NG in December and January shows that it is not, as Legend deems it, an "atrocious deck."

As for this blue/white contraption.  It looks abysmally, abysmally built.  I can't see it beating a preconstructed deck.  You and whoever your backers are say that it is beating Keeper to the tune of 70%?  I say, sure, if you mean 1995 unpowered Keeper played by eight year olds.  There's only one way to get respect for a deck that just looks that awful--take it to a strong metagame (NG, Richmond Comix) in a sanctioned tourney and see how you do.  If you're knocking off the Paragons at 70%, we'll all change our minds.  I just won't hold my breath.

[Ufactor, the Restricted]

[quote="NaClhv+July 09 2002,101-->Quote (NaClhv @ July 09 2002,101)Rakso, Justin, ufactor:

...For myself, as the starter of this topic, I would like to get back to talking about the deck and playing magic.[/quote]

chemical guy:

  If you're sincerely interested in magic and building decks, then don't post this putrid heap of garbage here!

[Rakso]

Quote (psyduck @ July 09 2002,10:02)

Quote Wow, im impressed, normally on BD alot of childish flames went by without your admonishment. Kudos. I have just smashed mc_bains keeper becaues i couldnt get you or CF to play against me (well CF also doesnt find the forum too appealing, so he won't be here to say much, blah), and i have the log available online too...

Possibly because the usual suspects were banned and the remaining people had some sense of humor. There's a difference between banter and numbers that equal bullshit.

Also, who casts Timetwister after countering a key card and getting Ancestral Recall in?

Incidentally, I've had a good deal of experience with Parfait and some with Enchantress in the various evolutions. I didn't buy the numbers the first time.

Now if I haven't heard K-Run and CooberP interested, and see nothing but hot air, why should I bother?

I won't.

[Rakso]

Quote Rakso, Justin, ufactor:

If you want to reminisce about the bdominia days, discuss the quaility of posts at themanadrain, or otherwise talk about the type 1 jokes, go to the community, off-topic, or humor forums.  For myself, as the starter of this topic, I would like to get back to talking about the deck and playing magic.

If you don't believe that something I said is true, then explain why you think so, and back it up with any playtesting results you have, rather than just saying "yeah, right"

If you have a problem with me or my attitude, talk to me about it upfront, rather than doing this thread-hijack attempt and slandering me in front of others.

Now, hopefully we can go back to talking about the deck...

I believe the complaint is that the potential of the deck is intertwined with the credibility and atttitude of the author, which is in turn intertwined with the pretty public history on the old site.

This is as up front as it gets, boy.\n\n

[Zherbus]

Closed. Nothing Good is coming of it. Nothing Good will come of it. Don't be suprised if shit like this gets deleted in the future. That is all.\n\n